It's Not all in the Megapixels

[JanieDough]

So I have been trying to do manipulations in photoshop, and I was having issues because of the difference in grain when shot in different ISO's.

Which I didn't think would be SO badly & drasticly different. Not to mention I may as well have used a cell phone to take some of the pics because that's how shitty the grain is.


I brought them and my camera to my teacher who is a professional digital artist - he takes digital photos and compiles them to build an image from the background up. He knows his stuff.

Basically he told me my camera was crap. The censor in it is apparently shitty, and that's why I get such a high grain which is making for some really horrible prints. I mean HORRIBLE.

I am really upset because I spent a good $400?? maybe $600?? on my camera w/o lens. I have a Canon Rebel which according to my teacher is crap. and it has 15MP!!!!

He says megapixels don't matter - that some 5MP point and shoot would take better photos than my rebel because it has a better censor.

He recommends Nikon 40D or something.


My question is this - is there any truth to what he was saying? Are the Nikon censors in their lower models better than the one in my Canon? Because Nikons are cheaper and I will switch teams if it means I can get a clear image.

It's driving me crazy because I love doing low light shots or night photography, and they all look like SHIT!!!

 

[Guyzerr]

Um.... I think... no lets say I know he's full of shit. Your camera is capable of taking great shots even at higher ISO settings but in order to do so you must know your camera. If you leave your ISO settings on automatic then it's likely your dark type shot will be crap because the setting will end up being very high. The best way to do it Janie O'babe is to set your ISO yourself and shoot on manual wherever you can. That way you control the situation.

Have you ever used a RAW viewer to see what your ISO ends up as after you shoot? If not I suggest you start because you need to know what's going on and what your camera likes or doesn't like.

One more thing about your instructor... if that's his attitude I'll like to sit in a room with him and have a little chat. He's very closed minded when it comes to Canon vs Nikon etc. He might know his shit as you say but he sure as fuck doesn't know how to teach. Ask the mofo what YOU are doing wrong and stop blaming the camera. He sounds like he has shares in Nikon. I hate assholes like that because both of the brands are good cameras.

 

[pinkporridge]

tbh janie. unless your going for full frame chips like the canon 5d mk2 or Nikon D3 (i think), your gonna get a shit ton of grain at high iso. If you like, i have a Nikon d300 i can do some tests today and increase the ISO so you can compare to what you get from yours?

 

[pinkporridge]

oh i could also prob get my friend sam (sammy39) to do the same test with her 5d mk2 the difference between hers and mine would be huge

 

[sammy39]

Full frame sensors rule! You can shoot at a really high ISO and its still a decent, noise-free photo!

 

[JanieDough]

tbh janie. unless your going for full frame chips like the canon 5d mk2 or Nikon D3 (i think), your gonna get a shit ton of grain at high iso. If you like, i have a Nikon d300 i can do some tests today and increase the ISO so you can compare to what you get from yours?

Full frame sensors rule! You can shoot at a really high ISO and its still a decent, noise-free photo!

I meant to quote Guyzerr too.

I always shoot in manual, so I adjust my ISO accordingly. Of course I always go for the lowest I can get away with, however like I said, I love doing night shots or shots in low light.

So my ISO usually stays at 400 or 800. And I am just getting an unbelievable amount of grain. I open my images in Bridge and then Photoshop - not sure what ISO viewer you mean Guyzerr. Splain me!

I am going for printing 11x14"s, and this is just unacceptable. Very disappointing.

Now maybe if I got a better lens, which I was planning on buying myself for Christmas anyways.

But I asked my teacher this and he said it was the camera. End of story.

So please please do the test pink. I would be much obliged!

 

[pinkporridge]

cool well me and sam are gonna go to the botanics tomorrow where we volunteer. so were going to do the test then. same lighting conditions same settings and same subject. im interested to see the difference between our cameras. and we will post the results.

to keep it fair we will keep our cameras at the same f.stop. We'll only adjust the ISO and then shutter speed to match. I'll test the grain at as high an ISO as my camera allows. and ill post the images with all the details.

 

[Tim]

Not all censors are created equal, pixels doesn't mean shit without a good sensor AND noise reduction software in the camera. You can have a 5MP camera taking clearer shots than a 10MP camera at the same ISO setting.

Take a look at this site for comparisons between ISO settings and camera models to see the difference yourself. The next page shows the resolution tests, you can see a huge difference.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/dslr-comparison/us.htm

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/dslr-comparison/resolution.htm

 

[JanieDough]

thank you Tim - I tried to google that and find something like that but I was coming up with the wrong sites. I guess I was using the wrong key words.

I really was googling the prices on other cameras really...

EDIT - I am reading them and kind of upset he doesn't test the Rebels - does that mean I do indeed have a shit camera?

 

[JanieDough]

cool well me and sam are gonna go to the botanics tomorrow where we volunteer. so were going to do the test then. same lighting conditions same settings and same subject. im interested to see the difference between our cameras. and we will post the results.

to keep it fair we will keep our cameras at the same f.stop. We'll only adjust the ISO and then shutter speed to match. I'll test the grain at as high an ISO as my camera allows. and ill post the images with all the details.

f.stop I know affects the light and shutter speed, but I was using a shutter speed about 1/60 so that shouldn't have contributed to too much blur or clarity right?

fool with f stop if you need and let the shutter do it's thing that it need for the light meter, but I am definitely interested in whatever you chose

 

[Dana]

If I paid 600 dollars for camera the teacher would like it or kiss my fucking ass IJS

 

[pinkporridge]

the shutterspeed shouldnt affect grain. but just keep the depth of field the same ill change the shutterspeed. the higher the ISO the more sensitive the chip is. the more light it absorbes, there for ill need a quicker shutter speed to keep up.

 

[sammy39]

A really long shutter speed may effect grain, especially if u r shooting at a high ISO...am I right, amy??

 

[Guyzerr]

A really long shutter speed may effect grain, especially if u r shooting at a high ISO...am I right, amy??

You are correct.

 

[Guyzerr]

Janie what exact model of camera do you have and what lens are you shooting with?

It would also be nice if you posted one of the " shitty " shots so we can see exactly what's going on. When you do it is very important that you leave the exif data intact so we can check all of your settings. Without that info it's pointless to carry this discussion on any further. We need a starting point.

 

[Francis]

So I have been trying to do manipulations in photoshop, and I was having issues because of the difference in grain when shot in different ISO's.

Which I didn't think would be SO badly & drasticly different. Not to mention I may as well have used a cell phone to take some of the pics because that's how shitty the grain is.


I brought them and my camera to my teacher who is a professional digital artist - he takes digital photos and compiles them to build an image from the background up. He knows his stuff.

Basically he told me my camera was crap. The censor in it is apparently shitty, and that's why I get such a high grain which is making for some really horrible prints. I mean HORRIBLE.

I am really upset because I spent a good $400?? maybe $600?? on my camera w/o lens. I have a Canon Rebel which according to my teacher is crap. and it has 15MP!!!!

He says megapixels don't matter - that some 5MP point and shoot would take better photos than my rebel because it has a better censor.

He recommends Nikon 40D or something.


My question is this - is there any truth to what he was saying? Are the Nikon censors in their lower models better than the one in my Canon? Because Nikons are cheaper and I will switch teams if it means I can get a clear image.

It's driving me crazy because I love doing low light shots or night photography, and they all look like SHIT!!!

I recall Guyzerr having a thread on cleaning your Sensors manually.. Yes Guy I do pay attention .. Have you done this to your sensors Janie and how long has it been since you last had it done ?

Also have you had the Camera looked at. As good as most technology is today, from time to time a bad sensor could have gotten into your camera.. If it is still warranted now is the time to have it looked at and even if not it may not cost much to get it repaired..

That would be where I would start.. :ninja

 

[JanieDough]

the shutterspeed shouldnt affect grain. but just keep the depth of field the same ill change the shutterspeed. the higher the ISO the more sensitive the chip is. the more light it absorbes, there for ill need a quicker shutter speed to keep up.

gotcha - let me know what settings you guys use and I will replicate the test afterwards.

A really long shutter speed may effect grain, especially if u r shooting at a high ISO...am I right, amy??

Does exactly affect the grain, or just the fact that if you shoot on a long shutter speed and you aren't using a tripod, your image just won't be sharp??

Janie what exact model of camera do you have and what lens are you shooting with?

It would also be nice if you posted one of the " shitty " shots so we can see exactly what's going on. When you do it is very important that you leave the exif data intact so we can check all of your settings.

ok so what format do I post it in? or I can just tell you what my settings are according to bridge - I'm going to have to use my other computer so I won't be uploading these tonight - maybe tomorrow.

I've had a rough few days.

 

[Guyzerr]

I recall Guyzerr having a thread on cleaning your Sensors manually.. Yes Guy I do pay attention .. Have you done this to your sensors Janie and how long has it been since you last had it done ?

That won't be causing the problem Francis.

Also have you had the Camera looked at. As good as most technology is today, from time to time a bad sensor could have gotten into your camera.. If it is still warranted now is the time to have it looked at and even if not it may not cost much to get it repaired..

That would be where I would start.. :ninja

That's a bit premature. Lets look at the data first.

 

[Guyzerr]

gotcha - let me know what settings you guys use and I will replicate the test afterwards.

You'll be comparing apples to oranges janie especially when it comes to Sammy's camera.

Does exactly affect the grain, or just the fact that if you shoot on a long shutter speed and you aren't using a tripod, your image just won't be sharp??

Get in the habit of using a tripod especially when your shooting night scenes with stationary objects.

ok so what format do I post it in? or I can just tell you what my settings are according to bridge - I'm going to have to use my other computer so I won't be uploading these tonight - maybe tomorrow.

I've had a rough few days.

You'll have to post it in jpg and yes you can tell us what your setting are if you don't know how to keep them intact. ( it's a check box in your software most likely ) Be sure to list every, and I mean every setting exactly as outlined by your viewer.

 

[Alien Allen]

When it comes to night pics there is no way I can do it by hand. I need lessons on how to hold a camera steady

I realize this has nothing to do with the discussion but this way I can follow the comments