Is there anyone here dumb enough to think the rich will Pay for all Obama's Promises?

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Fox Mulder

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Ok--I'm listening to Obama in the debates and he keeps promising all these things he going to "give" everyone and he says it going to come from taxes in the rich. Now I'm wondering if there is anyone here (other than Minor) who actually believes that the rich will pay for Obamas programs and the middle class won't?

So McCain keeps saying you have to cut government spending. Regardless of which candidate you support is there anyone that doesn't agree the federal government is spending too much money?
 
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wildcat52

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Re: Is there anyone here dumb enough to think the rich will Pay for all Obama's Promi

dudes.. this election..i dont even know what is going on!!
i dont have a tv and i dont watch much tv...
nor do i engage in politics anyway.
but i am sick of people being stupid about this crap.
both these guys, it seems, have SERIOUS cons instead of pros...
 

dt3

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Re: Is there anyone here dumb enough to think the rich will Pay for all Obama's Promi

All I know is the rich can afford people smart enough to shield most of their money offshore, so no matter what they don't pay as much as they "should". Maybe they should cut the corporate tax rates so they can afford to move their money back here. :dunno
 

Minor Axis

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Re: Is there anyone here dumb enough to think the rich will Pay for all Obama's Promi

This coming from a charter member of the Rich Man's Welfare League. Your misrepresenting Obama's position which is hardly surprising.

If anybody here really cares to see the differences between the candidates plans take a peak at the Tax Policy Center Matrix which makes a direct comparison of their plans.
 

Maulds

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Re: Is there anyone here dumb enough to think the rich will Pay for all Obama's Promi

But Mulder forgets paying more taxes for the rich is patriotic. That doesn't explain why those who propose it and are rich (Obama, Biden, Kerry) have accountants lined up to get them out of paying one cent more than they absolutely have to.:cool
 

Minor Axis

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Re: Is there anyone here dumb enough to think the rich will Pay for all Obama's Promi

But Mulder forgets paying more taxes for the rich is patriotic. That doesn't explain why those who propose it and are rich (Obama, Biden, Kerry) have accountants lined up to get them out of paying one cent more than they absolutely have to.:cool

Do tell us about Obama, Biden, and Kerry's accountants. And your point is they pay their taxes? Touche.
 

Strauss

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Re: Is there anyone here dumb enough to think the rich will Pay for all Obama's Promi

Do tell us about Obama, Biden, and Kerry's accountants. And your point is they pay their taxes? Touche.

Can't speak to Obama or Biden but Kerry no he doesn't. The Wife (who actually has the money) uses various tax avoidance investments to shield her almost 5 million in annual income.
 

Fox Mulder

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Re: Is there anyone here dumb enough to think the rich will Pay for all Obama's Promi

Minor you didn't answer the question. Where is Barrack Hussein Obama going to come up with the money to pay for healthcare for all Americans and rebuilding the infrastructure and all the rest of his fabulous programs to help us all. Where's the money going to come from? Answer a straight question on this forum for once--don't link us to a line of political bullshit--just tell us.
 

Fox Mulder

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Re: Is there anyone here dumb enough to think the rich will Pay for all Obama's Promi

BTW--Minor, you also avoided the question Do you think the federal goverment is spending too much money?

That really is the only question anyone and everyone should be concerned with because everyone knows the answer--they are spending far too much money and most of it wasted. Obama wants to spend more!!!! How in the fuck can anyone believe that can possibly be a good thing--that's what I just can't grasp--how any reasonably intelligent person can possibly believe that more federal spending and more taxes--especially in a time of financial crisis is a good thing.

Can someone who believes that tell me why they would vote for Obama? :confused
 

Strauss

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Re: Is there anyone here dumb enough to think the rich will Pay for all Obama's Promi

Re: Is there anyone here dumb enough to think the rich will Pay for all Obama's Promises?

BTW, Minor........I think this call is for you. :24:
;)
 

Fox Mulder

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Re: Is there anyone here dumb enough to think the rich will Pay for all Obama's Promi

For anyone interested in what Obama's plans to do (not his rhetoric--the actual effect of his proposed tax increases):

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2008/03/12/obamas-reckless-tax-increase-to-save-social-security/

A column in the Wall Street Journal discusses Senator Obama’s plan to boost the top tax rate on entrepreneurs and investors from less than 38 percent to more than 50 percent. This huge tax increase will significantly undermine incentives to both earn and report income. As a result, the author, formerly with the Social Security Administration, explains that behavioral responses will result in far less money than projected by “static” revenue estimates:
Mr. Obama has recently veered sharply left. He now proposes to solve the looming Social Security shortfall exclusively with higher taxes. …Currently, all wages below about $100,000 are subject to a 12.4% Social Security payroll tax. But all wages above that amount are not subject to the tax. Mr. Obama wants to eliminate the cap, but, in a concession to taxpayers, exempt wages between $100,000 and $200,000. …Mr. Obama’s plan would keep Social Security in the black for only three additional years. Under his proposal, annual deficits would hit in 2020, instead of 2017. By the 2030s the system would still run an annual deficit exceeding $150 billion. Mr. Obama’s modest improvements to Social Security’s financing come at a steep cost. …The top marginal federal tax rates would effectively increase to 50.3% from 37.9%, equivalent to repealing the Bush income tax cuts almost three times over. If one accounts for behavioral responses, even the modest budgetary improvements from Mr. Obama’s plan are likely to be overstated. If employers reduce wages to cover their increased payroll-tax liabilities, these wages would no longer be subject to state or federal income taxes, or Medicare taxes. A 2006 study by Harvard economist and Obama adviser Jeffrey Liebman concluded that roughly 20% of revenue increases from raising the tax cap would be offset by declining non-Social Security taxes. Assuming modest negative behavioral responses, Mr. Liebman projected an additional 30% reduction in net revenues, leaving barely half the intended revenue intact. Mr. Obama’s plan would also dramatically raise incentives for tax evasion, further degrading revenue gains. Many high-earning individuals evade the Medicare payroll tax by setting up “S Corporations,” paying themselves in untaxed dividends rather than taxable wages. John Edwards avoided $590,000 in Medicare taxes this way in the 1990s. …The U.S. already collects far more Social Security taxes from high earners than other countries do. Social Security taxes here are currently capped at about three times the national average wage — far above other developed countries. In Canada and France payroll taxes are levied only up to the average wage. In the United Kingdom, taxes stop at 1.15 times the average wage; in Germany and Japan at 1.5 times.
Obama also wants to let the Bush tax cuts expire, which means the top tax rate would rise even farther - to more than 55 percent. But the bad news may get even worse. It is unclear how Obama will “fix” the alternative minimum tax. If his Social Security plan is any indication, he may propose to raise the top rate even further. What would all this mean? Simply stated, European-style tax rates will mean European-style stagnation.

As been said over and over "change" isn't a good thing if its not good change. Obama would put tax rates back where they were in the 1970s under Carter and before Reagan's tax cuts. I am sure everyone recalls what the high tax rates during the Carter Admin did to the economy.

Clinton--by the way--raised taxes only modestly (about 5 percent) later in his presidency and that was enough to send the country into a recession in late 2000.

What is most amazing about liberal economic stupidity is that even the liberals agree that tax cuts are needed during a recession, yet the idiots repeal them when the economy is doing well? :confused Can they not fucking understand the reason the economy is doing well is the lower taxes? :confused. Seriously, this is really not reasonably debatable -- higher taxes and more government spending is a recipe for disaster--anyone who doesn't realize this is simply brain dead.
 

Fox Mulder

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Re: Is there anyone here dumb enough to think the rich will Pay for all Obama's Promi

BTW, Minor........I think this call is for you. :24:
;)

He answered the call. But all he's worried about is he thinks Obama will give his union enough leverage that he can get back the 40% in his salary he used to extort and no longer does. As long as Minor is benefitting, the country and the economy be damned.

BTW--the Bush economy has been EXCELLENT if you actually look at the numbers. The current financial crisis is due to bad loans forced on all of us by politically correct liberal bullshit--that is you can't possibly turn down a loan for a minority or risk being sued. Everything bad that happens to the economy comes about from stupid liberal economic decisions.
 

Strauss

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Re: Is there anyone here dumb enough to think the rich will Pay for all Obama's Promi

Yeah but what about unions?
;)

What I anticipate is the usual liberal response that we need to tax corporations more. Of course, the fact that we have the second highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world seems to blow over their pointy little heads. Nor the fact that by increasing corporate tax rates you reduce your tax income on two levels, both corporate and personal, while increasing the tax expenditures for paying unemployment to newly canned employees.
 

Alien Allen

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Re: Is there anyone here dumb enough to think the rich will Pay for all Obama's Promi

the scary part is not if Obama gets elected but the havoc that will result if enough morons elect 60 democrat senators.

if that happens it will make Peanut Boy economics look like utopia.

The liberals equate all businesses the same. They have no clue that their tax schemes will hurt the small ones also and traditionally they have been the ones to drive the economy.
 

TheOriginalJames

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Re: Is there anyone here dumb enough to think the rich will Pay for all Obama's Promi

Yeah the federal government spends way too much money. I want to know what goes where. I bet we just spent a few million on commercials to make people feel safer about cars they already own, or something along that line of BS.
 

Alien Allen

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Re: Is there anyone here dumb enough to think the rich will Pay for all Obama's Promi

Yeah the federal government spends way too much money. I want to know what goes where. I bet we just spent a few million on commercials to make people feel safer about cars they already own, or something along that line of BS.
how about ads for the post office.

WTF is up with that?
 

Fox Mulder

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Re: Is there anyone here dumb enough to think the rich will Pay for all Obama's Promi

The liberals equate all businesses the same. They have no clue that their tax schemes will hurt the small ones also and traditionally they have been the ones to drive the economy.

Well that's the point. Every tax is ultimately paid by the consumer but the pinhead liberals are too immersed in do-gooding to actually consider the effect of a seemingly good deed (i,e., let's tax the rich and give to the poor).

It really is as simple as the goverment needs to cut spending as oppossed to raise taxes--that's what McCain said over and over--now whether he does it or not is another story, but you should at least start with the premise that anyone elected President has got to realize that spending must be cut.
 

Fox Mulder

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Re: Is there anyone here dumb enough to think the rich will Pay for all Obama's Promi

how about ads for the post office.

WTF is up with that?

Let me give you another example--this is just one, but there are millions of these. My wife tells me the other day she met with a web designer to go over her firm's web site. He is going to help them for free. So I asked why is he doing it for free (immediately skeptical) and she says because she's a woman she qualifies as a minority business owner for free aid for her business--unlimited (she learned it from another friend of hers that's a woman business owner)! I had to laugh out loud and so did she of the stupidity of it. That's just plain stupid--the stupid ideas these liberals come up with in the name of political correctness.

I remember another case (GB probably knows it) where this company (I believe it was in Atlanta) sued (I forget who the company sued--probably the City) because they had this law that required that a minority supplier be used on a government contract. I forget the details, but in this instance this minority owned company was charging out the wazoo and this business was being forced to pay for it. Of course it was ruled unconstitutional, but this is a prime example of liberal stupidity--laws they come up with to supposedly regulate social justice. :rolleyes:
 

Alien Allen

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Re: Is there anyone here dumb enough to think the rich will Pay for all Obama's Promi

Let me give you another example--this is just one, but there are millions of these. My wife tells me the other day she met with a web designer to go over her firm's web site. He is going to help them for free. So I asked why is he doing it for free (immediately skeptical) and she says because she's a woman she qualifies as a minority business owner for free aid for her business--unlimited (she learned it from another friend of hers that's a woman business owner)! I had to laugh out loud and so did she of the stupidity of it. That's just plain stupid--the stupid ideas these liberals come up with in the name of political correctness.

I remember another case (GB probably knows it) where this company (I believe it was in Atlanta) sued (I forget who the company sued--probably the City) because they had this law that required that a minority supplier be used on a government contract. I forget the details, but in this instance this minority owned company was charging out the wazoo and this business was being forced to pay for it. Of course it was ruled unconstitutional, but this is a prime example of liberal stupidity--laws they come up with to supposedly regulate social justice. :rolleyes:
City of Detroit has minority preferences. We did a rare job in the city and after getting paid by the general contractor received a form indicating we needed to be a minority. once we filed the form they indicated we would be ineligible for any business with the city in the future.

another thing years ago we were hired by a general contractor to do work on an emergency basis. we submitted our bills and the city tried to get us to bill them at cost plus. they were going to dictate what we could charge. my old man told em to fuck off!!

another thing too was back in the early 70's or late 60's the unions sent their goons from Chicago to try and intimidate us and demand we unionize our industry. they had no idea who they were dealing with. that would be the equivalent of going to the mom and pop party stores and telling them they had to be union. wish I had been there to see it but I was not working there and still in school
 

Strauss

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Re: Is there anyone here dumb enough to think the rich will Pay for all Obama's Promi

Here's one local to me. My county government, the most liberal government in the state, in a state that is considered one of the most liberal in the country (don't ask why I live here :ninja) passed a law that requires ALL county contracts awarded have to pay a "living wage" (whatever the frig that means) rather than the most cost effective. So what happens? County spending dramatically increases for road construction, school construction yada yada yada. Feels good and gives you all the warm and fuzzes doesn't it. And now:

Montgomery Bracing for A Record Shortfall - washingtonpost.com

In sobering terms, Montgomery County's elected leaders began to confront the government's deepest-ever projected budget shortfall yesterday, warning residents of possible tax increases and tempering expectations for what the county can afford as they try to close a $401 million gap.
As a result they are talking about furlongs for county employees, raising taxes etc etc. And the really sad part is my elected officials DON'T see the connection.
 
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