Iraq War Vet: "We Were Told to Just Shoot People, and Officers Wud Take Care Of Us

[kelvin070]

I seen the video abt a week ago. You guys are champions of freedom, democracy and human rights - fucking disgusting. This is just the tip of the iceberg. The same thing is happenning in Afghanistan.

On Monday, April 5, Wikileaks.org posted video footage from Iraq, taken from a US military Apache helicopter in July 2007 as soldiers aboard it killed 12 people and wounded two children. The dead included two employees of the Reuters news agency: photographer Namir Noor-Eldeen and driver Saeed Chmagh.
The US military confirmed the authenticity of the video.
The footage clearly shows an unprovoked slaughter, and is shocking to watch whilst listening to the casual conversation of the soldiers in the background.
As disturbing as the video is, this type of behavior by US soldiers in Iraq is not uncommon.
Truthout has spoken with several soldiers who shared equally horrific stories of the slaughtering of innocent Iraqis by US occupation forces.

http://www.truthout.org/iraq-war-ve...t-people-and-officers-would-take-care-us58378

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF9P5vIzYyE&annotation_id=annotation_752789&feature=iv

 

[dt3]

Re: Iraq War Vet: "We Were Told to Just Shoot People, and Officers Wud Take Care Of

Do you watch the video before you spout ignorant comments?

Watch the whole thing. Take notice at the man with the RPG peeking his head around the corner at 4:10. And I especially love the 7:30 mark, when the pilots see one of them is still alive, and calls in the medics from the convoy that was being attacked!

War crimes my ass.

 

[porterjack]

Re: Iraq War Vet: "We Were Told to Just Shoot People, and Officers Wud Take Care Of

pilot did the right thing

 

[itsmeJonB]

Re: Iraq War Vet: "We Were Told to Just Shoot People, and Officers Wud Take Care Of

ITT: OP knows nothing about military tactics and spouts off uneducated remarks

 

[itsmeJonB]

Re: Iraq War Vet: "We Were Told to Just Shoot People, and Officers Wud Take Care Of

btw the sob story intro was pathetic.

 

[Minor Axis]

Re: Iraq War Vet: "We Were Told to Just Shoot People, and Officers Wud Take Care Of

There may have been several helos circling where threats seen were not displayed on the video. Two of the individuals seemed to be holding rifles, AK47s. The guy with the camera may or may not have been one of the individuals they were referring to as armed. The guy looking around the corner of the building looked suspicious and appeared to be in possession of an RPG.

Tell me Kelvin, about the rules of engagement for the area being patrolled? Is appearing on a street with a rifle, meet the criteria for engagement? It could, I don't know. How about peering around a building with what looks like an RPG? Is possession enough to engage or do the rules of engagement state you wait to be fired upon and most likely crash before engaging?

The video you posted does not provide enough info. You're disgusted because you're prejudiced and have assumed. I'm a U.S. military veteran and have been critical of the military, but it is prudent to withhold judgment until more info is provided. BTW, war sucks and collateral damage is a fact regardless of what country you represent. I'm not making excuses and this crew could be guilty, but you can't judge based solely on the video.

This post belongs more in the debate section than politics. Keep the stream of negative U.S. posts coming. You're batting a thousand.

 

[dt3]

Re: Iraq War Vet: "We Were Told to Just Shoot People, and Officers Wud Take Care Of

To fire on a target, you have to observe either Hostile Action or Hostile Intent. Carrying a weapon down the street (even an RPG) does NOT meet those criteria. But under any circumstances, a guy peering around a corner about to fire an RPG qualifies as Hostile Intent in my book, and apparently the military's since the pilots were cleared of any wrongdoing. The pilot followed the rules of engagement perfectly.

 

[itsmeJonB]

Re: Iraq War Vet: "We Were Told to Just Shoot People, and Officers Wud Take Care Of

I don't think Kelvin is going to agree with us because Singapore doesnt involve itself in war

but what he doesnt seem to understand is that US being the superpower that it is, war is necessary for us to stay afloat.
Im sure he could care less if the US was wiped off the face of the Earth, but we have a will to succeed, kill or be killed.
Survival of the fittest. If we didn't have as many threats as we did coming out of Iraq then, maybe "innocent" lives could have been spared.
Also there is such a thing as wrong place at the wrong time. They were journalists, meaning they went behind enemy lines to get stories and pictures. Its possible those two innocents were interviewing the wrong people at the wrong tme

 

[porterjack]

Re: Iraq War Vet: "We Were Told to Just Shoot People, and Officers Wud Take Care Of

The pilot followed the rules of engagement perfectly.

nothing more needs to be said

 

[Guyzerr]

Re: Iraq War Vet: "We Were Told to Just Shoot People, and Officers Wud Take Care Of

Also there is such a thing as wrong place at the wrong time. They were journalists, meaning they went behind enemy lines to get stories and pictures. Its possible those two innocents were interviewing the wrong people at the wrong tme

Over time there has been many war correspondents killed while they were doing their job. They know the risks before the accept the assignment. None are ever forced into it.

This guy is probably one of the best. I believe it was PBS Frontline that did a story on him and if you ever get a chance to see it I suggest you do.

Link: http://www.jamesnachtwey.com/

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Nachtwey

 

[kelvin070]

Re: Iraq War Vet: "We Were Told to Just Shoot People, and Officers Wud Take Care Of

Read the comments by americans abt this episode:

And here we go in Afghanistan, the same old shit !!!My god will we ever learn ?? Obama, bring our troops home !!!

"Just following orders" is reminiscent of the excuse of many Gestapo foot-soldiers following the post-Hitler era.


I applaud those who returned and told what I "hope" are true stories about the atrocities done in the name of America. Certainly the Iraqis and other Muslims know these truths, and based on them and our illegal incursion into Iraq will undoubtedly become our enemies in the future.
I think every American citizen should think about what would have happened during our Revolutionary War if the British and the Hessians had had access to such indiscriminate fire power and remote killing by drones.
Although I can find NO way to defend my country's intrusion into Iraq since it was almost entirely based on lies from the previous administration and a desire for oil and strategic base locations, I certainly understand a soldier's reaction to the possibility of death.
Obama, support the troops and bring them home now. Do not support the self-serving and imperialistic motivations that got us into this mess.


It is not the soldiers' fault.
It is our fault. The soldier's job is to kill people as efficiently as possible. That is what armed forces are supposed to do.
The Constitution gives Congress the exclusive right to declare war; i.e., to send soldiers to kill people.
We elect representatives to Congress in order to make that kind of decision in our name. The House of Representatives has the exclusive right to fund ---or de-fund--- wars and all other federal activities.
Those are the basic facts. I don't care if the war was never declared; if Bush did it; if Obama continues it; etc. They represent us, the American electorate (We, the People). So it is our fault that it has happened, and our fault if it continues.


The US has become as guilty as the enemy! Self righteous in the murder and mayhem against innocents has created a shameful nation forever. There is no pride in fighting a war like a rabid animal, just a unforgiven soul to burn in hell for eternity.

Just keep track of how many mid-level officers get promoted because they were willing to whitewash and cover-up these actions.

why does this suprise anyone? As if this war would be "different". It's appalling, for years and years we've counted how high the bodies piled from US action, yet we're supposed to be shocked at sudden "new" articles highlighting typical conduct.

I am so ashamed of my country. These atrocious actions by our troops will ensure that we will one day have the same kind of treatment done to us...and rightfully so. " Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." The government that not only condones, but encourages this complete evil against innocent human beings will suffer for it...mark my word. God will not be mocked. The Neocons that saturate this entire Administration are Satan's spawn. Hell was prepared for such as they.
This is Supposed to be a Christian Nation. What a lie the people are fed. This is the most evil nation on the face of this earth mainly because of it's Hypocrisy. We say one thing and do the opposite.

Dear god, what have we become? During the second world war German soldiers were told that if they were going to surrender, to surrender to an American. They knew they would be treated fairly. Now, to keep the price of oil down in the US our military has become a blood drooling monster. These kids raised on video games where no real blood is spilled even in the most horrific slaughters now show the same behavior in real combat. A decade of desensitization on a video screen. This is not accidental. With Texas now the boil on the ass of a failing education system in all states these poor kids going into combat are the dumbest of any generation. And they behave like it while carrying lethal weapons. This too is not an accident. During the Viet Nam conflict we in the Marines were told that we could refuse an illegal order, such as shooting at civilians. What have we become?

This country will soon pay the bill for its murderous arrogance. Enjoy the last remaining years of your fading power and do not be surprised to be treated the same way you've been treating other people throughout the planet.
usa is a nation of hypocrites, violent and undereducated...the shame of mankind.

"share the reality of their occupation experiences ... ". But they are killers.
When Israel captured Adolf Eichmann years after the Second World War, just about everything that Eichmann said was... " I only obeyed orders." Israel put him on trial, and then hung him.
In the US they 'share their experiences'. Is this nation rotten to the core? From the President to the foot-soldier.

Obama will never end these pointless wars because he is a puppet on a string and too many congressman/senators/contractors have too much to lose cash wise.
The U.S. has never been the 'guys in the white hats'.
We are totally rotten to the core and the only apparent thing that will end ALL of this, will be the financial collapse of the United States.
By then, it'll be waaaay too late.
And the sheeple will say, "wha hoppened?"
May God help us all.

 

[Sneakiecat]

Re: Iraq War Vet: "We Were Told to Just Shoot People, and Officers Wud Take Care Of

I wonder how many of those that made the comments have ever been in a situation like those in the video. I'm guessing few if not none.

 

[Guyzerr]

Re: Iraq War Vet: "We Were Told to Just Shoot People, and Officers Wud Take Care Of

I wonder how many of those that made the comments have ever been in a situation like those in the video. I'm guessing few if not none.

Those could have been written by anyone in any country. Notice kelvin didn't supply links. Even if he did how hard is it to come up with anti-war protesters from any country. Not hard at all.

 

[kelvin070]

Re: Iraq War Vet: "We Were Told to Just Shoot People, and Officers Wud Take Care Of

McChrystal Admits U.S. Troops are Killing Innocent Afghans at Checkpoints

[
America’s top commander in Afghanistan, Army General Stanley McChrystal, continues to struggle with the problem of U.S. troops shooting innocent citizens at checkpoints or near passing convoys. During a virtual town hall meeting with U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan, McChrystal told his audience: “We have shot an amazing number of people, but to my knowledge, none has ever proven to be a threat.” Officials say American and NATO troops have killed 30 Afghans and wounded 80 others since last summer in episodes the military calls “escalation of force.”
McChrystal added that during the nine-plus months he has been in charge, in none of the cases in which a civilian was hurt “has it turned out that the vehicle had a suicide bomb or weapons in it and, in many cases, had families in it.”
Despite imposing new rules of engagement since taking over U.S. military operations, McChrystal finds himself frustrated over the lack of improvement with civilian killings in this area. As shootings continue, more Afghans are driven into the hands of insurgents, according to an American soldier guarding detainees at Bagram Air Base.
“There are stories after stories about how these people are turned into insurgents,” Sergeant Major Michael Hall said. “Every time there is an escalation of force we are finding that innocents are being killed.”
-Noel Brinkerhoff/QUOTE]
http://waronyou.com/topics/mcchrystal-admits-u-s-troops-are-killing-innocent-afghans-at-checkpoints/

 

[kelvin070]

Re: Iraq War Vet: "We Were Told to Just Shoot People, and Officers Wud Take Care Of

I believe the scenario in Iraq was much worse.

 

[justmee]

Re: Iraq War Vet: "We Were Told to Just Shoot People, and Officers Wud Take Care Of

OP be trollin again

 

[dt3]

Re: Iraq War Vet: "We Were Told to Just Shoot People, and Officers Wud Take Care Of

“Every time there is an escalation of force we are finding that innocents are being killed.”

Alright Kelvin, care to explain to us what escalation of force is and how its used to protect American lives everyday?

 

[kelvin070]

Re: Iraq War Vet: "We Were Told to Just Shoot People, and Officers Wud Take Care Of

Alright Kelvin, care to explain to us what escalation of force is and how its used to protect American lives everyday?

The gist of my point is innocent civillians are being killed and I dont really know what 'escalation of force' is

 

[dt3]

Re: Iraq War Vet: "We Were Told to Just Shoot People, and Officers Wud Take Care Of

The gist of my point is innocent civillians are being killed and I dont really know whats 'escalation of force' is

Well then, allow me to enlighten you. I worked one of these checkpoints for 3 months straight, so I have a pretty good idea of how it works.

When a vehicle approaches without slowing down, at approx. 300 meters you fire a flare towards the vehicle. If they still continue to approach dangerously, at 200 meters you fire warning shots in front of the vehicle and at least one of those shots has to be a tracer round. At 100 meters, you fire to disable the vehicle, either by shooting the engine block if you have a high caliber weapon, or by shooting the driver if you don't.

It's the only way you can run a checkpoint without being killed. There's nothing inherently wrong in this system. Your article SAYS that the escalation of force was used. If these innocent civilians had simply stopped and pulled over at 300 meters, there would be no need to escalate. Plain and simple.

The rules are not barbaric or illegal, and do not promote slaughtering civilians. But if I'm at that checkpoint, I don't care if it's a 12-year old girl driving, if that car is still approaching at full speed at 100 meters, you're goddamn right I'm going to do what it takes to guarantee my safety every single time.

 

[kelvin070]

Re: Iraq War Vet: "We Were Told to Just Shoot People, and Officers Wud Take Care Of

Well then, allow me to enlighten you. I worked one of these checkpoints for 3 months straight, so I have a pretty good idea of how it works.

When a vehicle approaches without slowing down, at approx. 300 meters you fire a flare towards the vehicle. If they still continue to approach dangerously, at 200 meters you fire warning shots in front of the vehicle and at least one of those shots has to be a tracer round. At 100 meters, you fire to disable the vehicle, either by shooting the engine block if you have a high caliber weapon, or by shooting the driver if you don't.

It's the only way you can run a checkpoint without being killed. There's nothing inherently wrong in this system. Your article SAYS that the escalation of force was used. If these innocent civilians had simply stopped and pulled over at 300 meters, there would be no need to escalate. Plain and simple.

The rules are not barbaric or illegal, and do not promote slaughtering civilians. But if I'm at that checkpoint, I don't care if it's a 12-year old girl driving, if that car is still approaching at full speed at 100 meters, you're goddamn right I'm going to do what it takes to guarantee my safety every single time.

Those are your SOP which is only known to millitary personned manning the checkpoints and civillians approaching the checkpoint might just think that its some stray flares or bullets in a war torn country.