Immigration bill suffers major defeat

[GraceAbounds]

Immigration bill suffers major defeat

Legislation falls 14 votes short, despite Bush's big push to rally support
The Associated Press

WASHINGTON - The Senate drove a stake Thursday through President Bush's plan to legalize millions of unlawful immigrants, likely postponing major action on immigration until after the 2008 elections.
Responding to a stinging political setback, President Bush sounded resigned to defeat.
"Legal immigration is one of the top concerns of the American people, and Congress' failure to act on it is a disappointment," Bush said after an appearance in Newport, R.I. "The American people understand the status quo is unacceptable when it comes to our immigration laws. A lot of us worked hard to see if we couldn't find common ground. It didn't work."
The bill's supporters fell 14 votes short of the 60 needed to limit debate and clear the way for final passage of the legislation, which critics assailed as offering amnesty to illegal immigrants. The vote was 46 to 53 in favor of limiting the debate.
Senators in both parties said the issue is so volatile that Congress is highly unlikely to revisit it this fall or next year, when the presidential election will increasingly dominate American politics.
A similar effort collapsed in the Congress last year, and the House has not bothered with an immigration bill this year, awaiting Senate action.
The vote was a stinging setback for Bush, who advocated the bill as an imperfect but necessary fix of current immigration practices in which many illegal immigrants use forged documents or lapsed visas to live and work in the United States.
Victory for GOP conservatives
It was a victory for Republican conservatives who strongly criticized the bill's provisions that would have established pathways to lawful status for many of the estimated 12 million illegal immigrants. They were aided by talk radio and TV hosts who repeatedly attacked the bill and urged listeners to flood Congress with calls, faxes and e-mails.
The bill would have toughened border security and instituted a new system for weeding out illegal immigrants from workplaces. It would have created a new guest-worker program and allowed millions of illegal immigrants to obtain legal status if they briefly returned home.
Bush, who has made an unusual personal push to persuade key waverers to back the bill — one of his top domestic priorities — was on the phone with senators on Thursday morning after making calls Wednesday night to argue his case, said Scott Stanzel, a White House spokesman.
Bush's allies passed a similar test Tuesday, but several senators said they simply were agreeing to let debate continue for a couple of days, and they made no promises to support the legislation on Thursday or beyond.
Unfriendly amendments
The immigration measure would grant legalization to the estimated 12 million unlawful immigrants if they pass background checks and pay fines and fees.
The measure survived a series of unfriendly amendments Wednesday.
Sen. Bob Menendez, D-N.J., was among those disappointed Wednesday. The Senate voted 55-40 to reject his amendment that would have made it easier for some immigrants to obtain visas for family members left behind in their home countries.
"This action does nothing to allay my concerns about the increasingly right-wing tilt to these proceedings, and it makes it more difficult to vote in favor of invoking cloture on the bill," Menendez said, referring to Thursday's crucial vote to limit debate.
While Menendez and a few other Democrats oppose the bill, the main opponents have been Bush's fellow sunbelt Republicans. GOP Sens. David Vitter of Louisiana, Jim DeMint of South Carolina and Jeff Sessions of Alabama led the charge, often backed by Texan John Cornyn.
Late Wednesday, they applauded the Senate's refusal to reject a fairly low-key amendment that, because of parliamentary rules, left leaders no choice but to halt action until Thursday's showdown vote.
"They tried to railroad this through today, but we derailed the train," DeMint said. Asked if he was poised to kill the bill Thursday, DeMint replied, "we hope to."
The bill's bipartisan supporters, including liberals such as Kennedy and conservatives such as Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., pushed hard to survive Thursday's vote. But they were frustrated by the lack of enthusiasm shown by many in the president's party.
Some noted the virtual absence throughout Wednesday's floor debate of Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., who has declined to say how he would vote on the measure.
McConnell left GOP colleagues including Arlen Specter, R-Pa., to contend with the Vitter-DeMint-Sessions group, while Democrats were represented in the chamber most of the day by Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada.
URL: Immigration bill suffers major defeat - Politics - MSNBC.com

It is irritating they can not work together to get something productive done about illegal immigration and our sieve of a border.

 

[sundvlfn88]

I am at the point I don't care. If they make it let them stay. They want what we have and they will work hard for it.

 

[Tim]

It is irritating they can not work together to get something productive done about illegal immigration and our sieve of a border.

This frustrates me just as much as just about every piece of legislation that goes to the floor. They need to stop politicking and do whats right for the country. That would be a genuine breath of fresh air to see.

 

[sundvlfn88]

Well said Tim.

 

[GraceAbounds]

This frustrates me just as much as just about every piece of legislation that goes to the floor. They need to stop politicking and do whats right for the country. That would be a genuine breath of fresh air to see.

Ugh! You and me both!

 

[Tim]

Don't anyone hold their breath....

 

[GraceAbounds]

I am at the point I don't care. If they make it let them stay. They want what we have and they will work hard for it.

Legal immigration is fine. Illegal immigration, no. Due to terrorism, people need to be documented more than ever in this country. Not knowing who is here and who isn't is a problem.

 

[All Else Failed]

Seeing as how we need illegal immigrants for our economy to function properly, we need to do something fast.

 

[dt3]

This frustrates me just as much as just about every piece of legislation that goes to the floor. They need to stop politicking and do whats right for the country. That would be a genuine breath of fresh air to see.

Absolutely right.

 

[GraceAbounds]

Seeing as how we need illegal immigrants for our economy to function properly, we need to do something fast.

No we don't. Illegal immigrants drive wages down and put legal businesses out of business. Lived on the border. Been there, done that.

 

[All Else Failed]

No we don't. Illegal immigrants drive wages down and put legal businesses out of business. Lived on the border. Been there, done that.

Find me Americans that will spend 12+ hour days picking fruit for a few dollars and you will have proved me wrong.


Illegals do jobs that no one else will do that are important to many industries.

 

[GraceAbounds]

All of my family that live on farms. Not all Americans are afraid of hard work.

Proved wrong.

 

[All Else Failed]

All of my family that live on farms. Not all Americans are afraid of hard work.

Proved wrong.

Except there are too few farmers in America to actually do that. Many businesses won't pay enough for regular farmers to harvest things for them.

 

[dt3]

Except there are too few farmers in America to actually do that. Many businesses won't pay enough for regular farmers to harvest things for them.

So maybe it's not the fact that American's won't do the work? Maybe it's the business's fault for not paying fairly?

 

[GraceAbounds]

Also when we use to live back east, every harvest season we'd go to all the farms and help pick vegetables and fruit. The farmers let you take buckets of stuff with you for 'picking time'. It is a great way to have fun with the family if you don't live on a farm.

When illegal immigrants are allowed to work for less and their employers do not have to pay taxes for them, what the illegal immigrants are doing is driving wages down. One could say but if it costs more to pick food, food will cost more. Yes it will, but people will have jobs where the wages are not driven down and they'd be able to afford to buy the food.

It is a cycle and until the laws are enforced and employers and knowing consumers are severely fined for hiring illegals it will not stop. Immigrants can come over legally to harvest crops. They do not have to come over illegally to do it.

 

[All Else Failed]

So maybe it's not the fact that American's won't do the work? Maybe it's the business's fault for not paying fairly?

You won't find enough Americans to do the same job for the same amount of money. The harvesters would go bankrupt paying them all the right wage.

 

[All Else Failed]

Also when we use to live back east, every harvest season we'd go to all the farms and help pick vegetables and fruit. The farmers let you take buckets of stuff with you for 'picking time'. It is a great way to have fun with the family if you don't live on a farm.

When illegal immigrants are allowed to work for less and their employers do not have to pay taxes for them, what the illegal immigrants are doing is driving wages down. One could say but if it costs more to pick food, food will cost more. Yes it will, but people will have jobs where the wages are not driven down and they'd be able to afford to buy the food.

It is a cycle and until the laws are enforced and employers and knowing consumers are severely fined for hiring illegals it will not stop. Immigrants can come over legally to harvest crops. They do not have to come over illegally to do it.

its not as simple as "why don't they just come over legally!?" There are so many barriers both legal and social that make that almost impossible for the average joe Mexican who is starving in a third world country.

Would you like to see all of them thrown out if they are illegal?

 

[dt3]

You won't find enough Americans to do the same job for the same amount of money. The harvesters would go bankrupt paying them all the right wage.

Unless, like Grace said, the end product costs more.

 

[All Else Failed]

Unless, like Grace said, the end product costs more.

And have people not buy your product, then harvesters suffer from loss of earnings, and then lay off their workers.

 

[GraceAbounds]

Would you like to see all of them thrown out if they are illegal?

No and I certainly do not claim to have all the answers.

Like for instance the child that the parents brought over illegally - the child did not break the law, the parents did. Should the parents be punished and removed? Yes, but what happens to the kid? You can't separate families like that, right? I don't know. I know it is a very difficult subject.

I do think however that if we stop making the US so 'illegal immigrant friendly', many would stop coming illegally. A lot of state laws have been made to deter illegals since the fed laws are not doing enough.

I mainly just want people to be documented. I'd also like to see the US speed up the legalization process for immigrants. Living in a third world country is horrible, been there done that as well. But illegal immigration is not the answer to that problem either.