If you were the President.......

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Tangerine

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While in theory I completely agree with the idea of legalizing recreational drugs like marijuana, it's misinformed to think that doing so would create a huge excessive pool of money to throw at health care. Reason being that eliminating the "war on drugs" would create a pretty devastating ripple through the ecomony. Hundreds of thousands of jobs lost in the areas of law enforcement, the legal system (court reporters, lawyers, judges, bail bondsmen etc.), and the prison system - which is now a gigantic private-sector industry. And yes, all of that money and many of the jobs could reappear in other areas of life, but it would still create economic disaster at the onset. If there was ever a case that GM was "too big to fail," (something which I don't agree with) the scope of the job loss by gutting the "war on drugs" would make GM look like a lemonade stand.

To the original question: It's too late now, because the trillions have already been spent. BUT, if I had taken over on January 20, 2009 - I would have taken every penny that had been commited for bailouts for banking and other industry, combined it with every penny from the "stimulus package" and divided that money equally for every taxpayer who makes less than $500,000 per year. Sent everyone a check. NOT tax free. That would have immediately put disposable income in the hands of the people who need it the most and drive our consumer engine. Many could have bought houses and cars with hefty down payments, which would have not only re-energized those specific markets, but would have also had a massive impact on banking - by way of creating millions of "non-toxic" loans and mortgages - all properly backed up with fat down payments creating safe, equity-rich assets on the books of lending institutions. Plus, 25% of the trillions involved would flow right back into the Federal coffers via income taxes, which could be earmarked to allow the government to continue to fund it's "shovel-ready" growth projects that were some of the actual "good" parts of the stimulus plan to begin with.
 
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Alien Allen

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KpAtch said:
Can't legislate all morality? Well hell, why should we even have laws against murder? Making murder against the law doesn't seem to stop people, we should just legalize it and while we are at it, just destroy all our laws and then there won't be the need for police, because you can't legislate morality.
There are certain things which you can not stop people from doing that cause no harm to others. If you drink or do drugs and drive then clearly that should be illegal. But if you do the same in your house that is another story and trying to ban drugs is a stupid waste of money. I have been as anti National Health care as anybody but something has to be done. Why not take the money pissed away on the drug war and put it to good use?

Why do you want to fund national health care? Run out of good people because of term limits? So lets just remove the Presidential term limit, maybe we can have Obama elected as our president 3 more times? Maybe 4 more and set a new record?
I was referring to congress. Not the president. I do have a little back ground on dealing with the state and local govts. As I said earlier the term limits which MI has instituted is a failure. If other states want to adopt it that is their business but based on my experience it does not work. It puts way too much power into the hands of the staffers and lobbyists. You can remove the lobbyists perhaps by making them illegal but you still will have the issue of staffers being recycled. They may not drive the bus but they are drive train that allows the bus to move.

In an ideal world I would eliminate PAC's, eliminate lobbyists and make elections publicly funded.
 

MoonOwl

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Sorry y'all. Good responses over night, but I don't have time to respond properly right now cuz I have soooooo much stuff to do today for my kids' Bday party tomorrow. I will be back later... I also have to do some digging around to see if I still have links that I can support my words with.... If y'all are curious before then, you can start by looking up HR 1955 and see how many in the House voted it down. Those are who haven't sold out. There are like 4 or 5. As far as I know S1959 (as it went to the Senate) was never voted upon. It was supposed to be last summer. Perhaps they all got smart and tossed that AntiAmerican POS bill in the trash can? If so, perhaps there is hope ;)

TGIF!!!!!! I'm off to stimulate the economy some more.... Thanks for playing!
MO
 

skyblue

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take the japanese economy as an example,even when its struggling its thriving.........they have imports just like the rest of us only the japanese buy japanese....the reason,the japanese public want western products but face long waits if they order them.....take for example cars,the mini cooper.....it was highlighted over here a few years back,a consignment of about 200 docked in japan,about 2 months later they got around to doing import quality checks,nw these checks are vigorous to say the least,the check everything,not a stone is left unturned....now this takes time and they dont let 1 car in until the whole consignment has been checked...its a starting point
 

MoonOwl

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whilst someone with the goal of domination, such as N. Korea's leader, yes, the issue of reinstatement of the previous ideals of freedom and liberty might be difficult.

however, my aim is not to dominate, but to fix. the point of throwing 'the d word' is because it would take that level of obedience in my actions to actually get the ball rolling to get to the point where the 'freedom and liberty' government will have a chance to flourish in such a way that does not lead to the predicament that we are currently in.

my preferred style of getting things done is behind the scenes, showing face only when absolutely necessary. that is just who i am; and that is what i think this country needs in order to get where it needs to go.

oh, and another thing: you would still be able to exercise many freedoms and liberties in the 'd' government i would setup, such as freedom of speech. you may exercise your freedoms as long as they do not interfere with others' exercising their freedoms, who will give you the same level of respect.

ssl, I entertained thoughts of installing Ron Paul as 'dictator' to right the wrongs in our course. But, it is better to restore the checks and balances our Founding Fathers built into our foundation. imho.


Sold out to who? Voter fraud is taking place a hell of a lot more with liberals than conservatives. Acorn anybody? Term limits will ensure politicians can't stick around long enough to gain too much power, which I think will help solve a lot of issues.

P.S.
I'm not trying to jump down anybodies throat here, I know sometimes I just kinda get on a rampage in these threads. It just blows my mind the line of thinking some people have and their justifications for it. I literally can't comprehend the reasoning some people have on this forum.


If I knew the exact answer regarding just who our congress is listening to I'd tell you. I don't have the time, energy or resources to follow all the money. Search engines can be helpful if you're interested.

Here's the link I referenced earlier to voting in the House on HR1955.

GovTrack: House Vote On Passage: H.R. 1955 [110th]: Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism...


Kelvin070, that was part of Ron Paul's platform also.

Good suggestions once again. Too bad it isn't a breeze to implement them. But when does corrupted power ever give it up easily?

MO
 

Meirionnydd

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The first thing I would do is to decriminalize drugs and then legalize pot and sell it like booze. The amount of money saved could easily fund national health care. The pushers would have to find something else to do to make money and kids in poor areas would no longer live the dream of making big bucks by being a pusher. And also the police would be freed up more to actually fight crime.

'Poor' kids don't go up with aspirations of becoming drug dealers.

Decriminalising drugs wouldn't reduce crime either.

Think of the types of crime people commit when under the influence of drugs.
 

Peter Parka

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Tax on legal drugs (alcohol and tobacco) already pays the entire cost of the NHS 6 times over. I'm not so naive that I belive drugs dont influence people to commit crime but legalising them would reduce the costs of locking people up simply for doing or dealing in them. Its hypocritical to have alcohol, a drug which causes a lot of crime, legal while drugs like cannabis are illegal. People going nuts on cannabis and commiting violent and anti social crime is nowhere near as common as people doing it after the've got drunk.
 

KpAtch3s

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Tax on legal drugs (alcohol and tobacco) already pays the entire cost of the NHS 6 times over. I'm not so naive that I belive drugs dont influence people to commit crime but legalising them would reduce the costs of locking people up simply for doing or dealing in them. Its hypocritical to have alcohol, a drug which causes a lot of crime, legal while drugs like cannabis are illegal. People going nuts on cannabis and commiting violent and anti social crime is nowhere near as common as people doing it after the've got drunk.

Not as common because fewer people are ok with doing illegal drugs. Some percentage statistics here are needed to make a good comparison.

An angry drunk is a hell of a lot easier to deal with than a psychopath drugged up idiot.
 

Tangerine

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Not as common because fewer people are ok with doing illegal drugs. Some percentage statistics here are needed to make a good comparison.

An angry drunk is a hell of a lot easier to deal with than a psychopath drugged up idiot.

It's pretty hard to get to the psycopath idiot stage from pot. Same goes for heroin. Coke is a possiblity, but anger and agression aren't common. PCP, Meth - Yes.

I would be in favor of categorizing drugs to made legal in various levels. Pot should be 100% as legal as alcohol or tobacco. Others could have stricter limitations based on their strength and likelyhood of causing people to be violent. (Alcohol, BTW, is probably the worst drug in this category, yet we drink it up by the metric tons every day) And the laws against commiting OTHER crimes while under the influence of these newly-legal drugs should be brutal. Do coke and beat your wife? 25 years with no parole. Kill someone? Felony Murder.
 

MoonOwl

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Decriminalising drugs wouldn't reduce crime either.



I'm not sure about that. Legalize them and make them cheaper and it's possible crack heads won't be robbing people for the $ for their next high?

Then again some assholes are always going to steal.

I think the biggest reason why 'drugs' won't be legalized is it brings in too much money to the CJS and our government. Besides, it makes sense and when does government ever do anything that makes sense?

Sense..... It's been decades since I've smoked any of that.......;)
 

Tangerine

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'Poor' kids don't go up with aspirations of becoming drug dealers.

Decriminalising drugs wouldn't reduce crime either.

Think of the types of crime people commit when under the influence of drugs.

Pretty much everything you said here is misguided and off the mark.

Poor kids FREQUENTLY have aspirations of being drug dealers, because it's the only level of "success" they often see in their environment. The dealers have money, power and others fear them, and that's an enticing combination on impressionable young minds with few other options.

Won't reduce crime? Well if you consider that more than 50% of all people in US prisons are there because they bought and/or sold drugs, I'd say yeah, it would go a LONG WAY to reducing the number of offenders and offenses that are clogging our legal system and draining it's resources. Crime commited by people "under the influence" is a fairly small problem compared to that. And consider that if 50% of the "crimes" the cops and courts are wasting time with no longer existed, how much time could they dedicate to preventing REAL crime by being more visible and active, and focus on actually reducing victim-related crime?

You should watch HBO's "The Wire" if you want to really understand what the "war on drugs" is all about and how it affects everyone involved on all fronts.
 

dt3

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Pretty much everything you said here is misguided and off the mark.

Poor kids FREQUENTLY have aspirations of being drug dealers, because it's the only level of "success" they often see in their environment. The dealers have money, power and others fear them, and that's an enticing combination on impressionable young minds with few other options.

Won't reduce crime? Well if you consider that more than 50% of all people in US prisons are there because they bought and/or sold drugs, I'd say yeah, it would go a LONG WAY to reducing the number of offenders and offenses that are clogging our legal system and draining it's resources. Crime commited by people "under the influence" is a fairly small problem compared to that. And consider that if 50% of the "crimes" the cops and courts are wasting time with no longer existed, how much time could they dedicate to preventing REAL crime by being more visible and active, and focus on actually reducing victim-related crime?

You should watch HBO's "The Wire" if you want to really understand what the "war on drugs" is all about and how it affects everyone involved on all fronts.

I thought you had some good points. But when you point to a fictional TV show as evidence, you lose a lot of credibility. If I said we were winning the war on terror, just watch 24, you'd probably laugh right out of the thread.
 

kelvin070

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In a free country there are limitations as to what the president can do really. Obviously some here will talk abt chewing gums.
 

Peter Parka

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Crime commited by people "under the influence" is a fairly small problem compared to that.

Dont know about in the US but over here I would say over half of people who end up in prison get there comitting crime while under the influence. However most of them were under the influence of a legal drug, alcohol.
 

Tangerine

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I thought you had some good points. But when you point to a fictional TV show as evidence, you lose a lot of credibility. If I said we were winning the war on terror, just watch 24, you'd probably laugh right out of the thread.

If you think "The Wire" was strictly a "fictional TV show" you need to dig a little deeper. The people that created, wrote, directed and in some cases acted on that show were people from the front lines of that "war" and all it's effects in inner-city Baltimore. Career cops, veteran reporters who covered it all, actual kingpin dealers, parents and kids who lived their lives in the midst of it - THOSE are the people who made that show. And it was made with the purpose of educating and enlightening. Go back and read the books it's based on, listen to all the commentary by the creators, and you'll understand. The "fiction" was simply a vehicle to tell a very true story that needs to be told.
 

MoonOwl

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dammit! I had a link to a 1.5 hr radio interview w/Cynthia McKinney regarding Congress and now I can't find it.

Some of the stuff she said was a trip. Not in a good way. I'll check again....
 
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