How Wrong Is This?

[The Man]

I can't believe that anybody thinks its okay to abuse and control women within inches of their life, simply because "it's their belief and culture".

It's absolutely disgusting and wrong. Nobody should be treated like that, no matter what "culture" dictates.

repped as well
Great post

 

[Minderella]

And yet our own history is full of very serious wrongs. We completely obliterated a people because we wanted their land. We enslaved over FOUR MILLION people. I'm sure there are many other cultures that thought we were in the wrong, and yet how would we have reacted to another country taking over and imposing what they thought was right on us? Notsomuch.

While we find it abhorrent, I'm sure in turn other countries/cultures find MANY things abhorrent about our us.

Nobody is saying that our country doesn't have a shitty history.

But at least most of us have enough sense to realize that it's NOT OKAY to treat people like they are property.

Also, I don't see anybody saying we, as Americans, need to waltz in and take over. At least I'm not--that's been proven to cause way more problems than solve them--but it still doesn't make it right how SA treats women. It never will. Ever.

 

[fuel1316]

"Saudi Arabia is the only country in the world that prohibits women from driving. "
thats not just them and their culture being different. thats them standing alone against the rest of the world even in other slave countries women can drive!

"Look, we are not asking for ... women's rights according to Western values or lifestyles ... We want things according to what Islam says. Look at our history, our role models." -Maha Akeel
^ that! im not asking SA to conform to western rule but damn! at least give them islamic rule

 

[satinbutterfly]

Nobody is saying that our country doesn't have a shitty history.

But at least most of us have enough sense to realize that it's NOT OKAY to treat people like they are property.

Also, I don't see anybody saying we, as Americans, need to waltz in and take over. At least I'm not--that's been proven to cause way more problems than solve them--but it still doesn't make it right how SA treats women. It never will. Ever.

There are many things that we would find wrong with many other countries/cultures/religions/etc in regards to human rights. Who's to say in the end who is right and who is wrong? Some people in the US find spanking children a form of abuse, and some do not. Is sending a child to bed without dinner abuse? Is emotional abuse right? It's not against the law.

We believe certain things are wrong because of cultural differences. While I believe that it's wrong to treat women so, in there culture it's not. What if the Hindu's are right and the untouchables are deserving of their karma and deserve the abuse they suffer at the hands of the upper castes? What if the Christians are right and women aren't equal to men because we were the ones who bit into the apple?

I know what I believe, but I'm not going to judge another country/culture/religion simply because I wasn't brought up with the same idea of right and wrong as they were.

 

[satinbutterfly]

I'd also like to remind all of you that if we had a member here that was from Saudi Arabia we would be seriously offending that person. Disagree all you want, but this kind of hate is unacceptable, especially when people make comments about bombing an entire country because we disagree with the way were brought up to live.

I'm sure any of you would find it highly offensive if someone thought the US should be wiped out of existence for us punishing our children, which in some cultures could be considered abuse and completely wrong.

 

[Minderella]

Well, I'm really glad that you think beating women and controlling their every move is "okay" for them because it's "their culture". So that means nobody should speak out against it because that's how they've always done things. Blah, blah, blah. That's bullshit and cowardly.

Treating PEOPLE (women, men, children, whoever) like that is WRONG. I don't care what your culture says, what your bible says, what your parents told you, etc. I have more respect for human beings than that.

Again, I'm not saying that they need to be bombed--I'm not hating on the people there, I'm not saying that we need to fly right over there and demand they change their ways (although, I wish I could). I'm hating on their idea that treating women worse than a dog is okay.

People deserve to be treated like PEOPLE. Regardless of beliefs or culture.

 

[satinbutterfly]

Well, I'm really glad that you think beating women and controlling their every move is "okay" for them because it's "their culture". So that means nobody should speak out against it because that's how they've always done things. Blah, blah, blah. That's bullshit and cowardly.

Treating PEOPLE (women, men, children, whoever) like that is WRONG. I don't care what your culture says, what your bible says, what your parents told you, etc. I have more respect for human beings than that.

So I'm sure then that you are perfect and everyone should believe exactly as you do? Since you obviously know EVERYTHING and are completely right in every moral regard? That everyone should hate and wish death upon those you deem unfit?

All hail Minderella, superior to all.

 

[The Man]

True. Hopefully, human rights will continue to grow in that region.

Actually there was a fuss made over women undergarments and store clerks...dont remember the details or how it ended..But I think it was a success if I remember correctly

 

[Minderella]

So I'm sure then that you are perfect and everyone should believe exactly as you do? Since you obviously know EVERYTHING and are completely right in every moral regard? That everyone should hate and wish death upon those you deem unfit?

All hail Minderella, superior to all.

Exactly.

 

[Mercury]

Actually there was a fuss made over women undergarments and store clerks...dont remember the details or how it ended..But I think it was a success if I remember correctly

That would be cool!

I remember when my Supervisor at a job returned back from Afghanistan and he told me a story about how he was at a checkpoint and a car came busting through it. They were able to stop the car and detain the driver who was a woman. Apparently, she had a trunk full of lingerie and knew that if she was discovered with that stuff, she would most likely be killed.

The recent civil uprising in these nations show a common Human factor for individual rights and I am VERY glad to see them occurring and I HOPE that they will continue until they find their own true freedoms.

 

[fuel1316]

I'd also like to remind all of you that if we had a member here that was from Saudi Arabia we would be seriously offending that person. Disagree all you want, but this kind of hate is unacceptable, especially when people make comments about bombing an entire country because we disagree with the way were brought up to live.

thats probably true

if i was a guy in SA and i had free range to beat women half to death with a lead pipe because i felt like being a douche canoe i wouldnt complain one bit. rather do the beating than to take it

if you ask a SA woman shed probably tell you just how offended she is and how much she loves SA because shes afraid of getting beaten half to death with a lead pipe.

 

[satinbutterfly]

Personally I'm not that much of a narcissist and while I may not always agree with others or their beliefs/way of life/etc I realize there may be a possibility that I may not know everything and that they may actually have it right. I'm not going to hate them because of it, nor would I appreciate it if I was hated for my beliefs.

"Seek first to understand."

 

[The Man]

That would be cool!

I remember when my Supervisor at a job returned back from Afghanistan and he told me a story about how he was at a checkpoint and a car came busting through it. They were able to stop the car and detain the driver who was a woman. Apparently, she had a trunk full of lingerie and knew that if she was discovered with that stuff, she would most likely be killed.

The recent civil uprising in these nations show a common Human factor for individual rights and I am VERY glad to see them occurring and I HOPE that they will continue until they find their own true freedoms.

Progress often happens in baby steps :thumbup

 

[Minderella]

Nobody is hating the people. FFS. I'm sure there are plenty of lovely, wonderful, amazing people (men AND women) in SA.

There is NOTHING more that I could know about anything in their culture that would make it okay in ANY WAY for women or people to be treated that way. Just like there is no way that anybody could say anything that would make me believe it's right for it to happen here, or in Canada, or in fucking Timbuktu. Treating people like that is NEVER EVER EVER OKAY.

And with that, I'm done. Carry on! :clap

 

[fuel1316]

agreed with jade there!

its fine if you like that sort of shit. more power to ya but i know for a fact there is one woman there who hates it. every minute of it and for her i hate it. i dont want her to live in a country that beats her for having a vagina. WTF. she hates it so there for i am outraged for her having to live in it.

people can hate on our laws all they want. what do i care but there is something fundamentally wrong about an old woman being FORCED to starve to death because her husband died. if i hate our laws. guess what? i can get the fuck out of dodge! shes not allowed to leave. i have a pretty good guess why that is too... if women were free to leave SA it would be a whole country of angry single dudes with no one to beat

 

[The Man]

Nobody is hating the people. FFS. I'm sure there are plenty of lovely, wonderful, amazing people (men AND women) in SA.

There is NOTHING more that I could know about anything in their culture that would make it okay in ANY WAY for women or people to be treated that way. Just like there is no way that anybody could say anything that would make me believe it's right for it to happen here, or in Canada, or in fucking Timbuktu. Treating people like that is NEVER EVER EVER OKAY.

And with that, I'm done. Carry on! :clap

I agree we were discussing how right or how wrong we felt about that law.
Its no different than the discussions going on about the Florida cases and people being outraged with the laws.
Same for abortion discussions in the states...Are we supposed to be offended by anyone from across the ocean that makes a comment?.
Not at all there are merely expressing their opinion on our laws

You will always have been people that try to turn anything into a hate issue

 

[Minderella]

Well, ftr--the comment about getting all the women out and bombing SA was wrong. That isn't okay either, and it wouldn't solve any problems.

AND now, for reals. Done. This convo will go nowhere.

 

[The Man]

I think it was the 50s here when we allowed women to vote...anyone remember?
And the last few decades have advanced for the work place with equal pay...I am sure some sexual harassment still exists though.

 

[Alien Allen]

There are serious cultural differences here that need to be considered. Just because some things that in our culture are unacceptable doesn't mean that's the way it is everywhere. We don't have any right to judge a country or culture because it is different than ours. I'm sure there are many cultural differences all over the world that may disgust and anger you, but we can't expect to impose our views on the world. It just doesn't work that way.

Hell even in our culture in the US women are still fighting to be considered equal and still make considerably less money than men do. We've been fighting that battle for 100 years and we still have a ways to go.

And I think this thread was mainly started to break the new rule set by V on this forum about racism/hate/etc and it's certainly not a good idea to do so.

If this thread is breaking any rules then I guess I am out of here. Up until your post there was nothing wrong.

With all due respect there is no way to condone what is torture using cultural differences as a basis.

 

[satinbutterfly]

Here's the thing: the women of SA would need to be the ones to fight for their rights just like everyone else throughout history has. Trying to impose our views on other countries/cultures does not work and we end up just making even more of a mess of things causing them to hate us worse.

So while I think it's wrong, I'm willing to let them figure it all out on their own if it's meant to be that they should. Just like you can't tell a woman in an abusive relationship she doesn't deserve to be treated that way, and yet she will stay anyway until she realizes it on her own. You can't force anyone to believe as you do. They have to be willing to fight for it on their own. So you just watch and wait and hope she figures it out. Judging her and telling her what she should do gets you no where and usually just pisses her off, and neither does judging the man who's abusing her. She's allowing the abuse, indicating to him she's not willing to do anything about it and he will continue.