How do you feel about next November?

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Minor Axis

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If you vote for a Republican President this time I'm trying to figure out why. Yes, it's got to be because their heart is where you want a President to be, low taxes for the rich, big talk about religion but not acting like Christians, huge number of scandals from money grubbing bastards and two faced homophobes, those values?

In addition, this Republican Administration lied us into a war that has lasted longer than WWII, they have raped the taxpayers Treasury war with no bid contracts, and they have done their best to deregulate the U.S. Government leading to things like, I don't know, the burst housing bubble, 90 banks on the bust (as in going bust) list, degradation of the environment, a non-existant energy policy (other than go-drill-more-wells) and the wreck of the U.S Economy?

And if you are one of those who think labor unions are bad, compared to this Administration you can have a real laugh or get sober, get real, and realize the real threat to our country is currently in charge of it.

For your consideration: Deregulation: The Global War on Labor. BTW, this article blames, Carter, Reagan, Clinton, but W most of all. Labor, yes, most of you reading this in the U.S. is under attack. You've got your values and you've got your pocketbook. I guarantee that unless you are a millionaire, you are not a member of the Republican club. And if you are a worker voting Republican, you're just a sucker helping the big boys achieve their goals while shooting yourself in the economic foot.

Can you attest to any of the following? And if you are down on unions, I guarantee that unions and a pro-labor government is what got most of your parents decent jobs.

While the tax, trade, wage and benefits policies were being implemented top down during the two decade between 1980-2006 under four presidents from both parties, deregulated corporate policies and practices that further contributing to the growing income inequality gap were being simultaneously overhauled from the bottom-up, shifting from full-time, permanent jobs to part-time, temporary, and independent contract work. Growing consistently since the 1980s, more than 44 million of the 137 million employed workforce in the US, close to one third, are now part-time, temporary, and contract workers earning 60-70% of the pay of full-time workers and typically 20% of the benefits.

///

Management promoted de-unionization policies launched in the 1980s resulted in the decline of union membership from 22% of the workforce in 1980 to barely 7% in the private sector in 2006. Two decades of corporate job outsourcing policies sent millions of high-paying, liberal benefit jobs in manufacturing, technology, and business professional services overseas, a loss filled with lower paying domestic service jobs—frequently part-time, temp, and contract jobs. Corporate fringe benefits policies shifted fundamentally during the same period, resulting in the dismantling of more than 100,000 traditional pension plans and their replacement with cheaper cost 401-K plans; the discontinuance and/or shifting of costs of health insurance plan coverage; widespread unilateral corporate elimination of retiree health benefits; reduction of paid vacation and other paid time off; and other similar company-driven cost reduction measures.
///

Health Care and Pension
Government agency rule changes allowed corporations to extract pension fund surpluses for general business use and/or to delay properly funding pension plans. Government bodies like the National Labor Relations Board directly aided corporate efforts to de-unionize while government de-regulation and privatization of entire industries further decimated union membership ranks and undermined union bargaining effectiveness.

///

Given the magnitudes of these income shifts from workers, it is not surprising that corporate profits have increased at double digit rates every quarter for the last three and a half years to more than $1.4 trillion; or that CEOs and the top 5 managers of US corporations have increased their total share of national income from around $50 billion a year in 2001 to more than $140 billion a year in just five years; or that the wealthiest 1% (1.1 million) households have seen their share of total national income reported grow to levels of 20-22% of total national income, levels not seen since the gilded age of the 1920s.

National income that passes through the conduit of the corporation is disbursed to shareholders, senior managers, and CEOs in the form of dividends, interest payment, capital gains, and various forms of deferred and total compensation. What is not disbursed may be accumulated and expended on corporate expansion (i.e., invested) or held by the corporation as retained profits or used for share buy-backs to lift share prices. Official figures for retained profits by US corporations are now at the level of more than $500 billion a year, about $200 billion a year higher than long term historical averages.

And those figures only represent retained profits that are reported. Largely unreported are additional profits by multinational corporations that get transferred by various accounting means to their offshore subsidiaries and affiliates and then held there as un-repatriated profits for years to avoid US taxes. The precise totals for such un-repatriated profits are not known, either by the IRS or the US government. Morgan Stanley in 2005 reported that the total in offshore un-repatriated profits held by US corporations amounted to about $700 billion.

A third and even more opaque category of profits consists essentially of unknown profits from domestic US or foreign operations that are diverted to offshore tax shelters and never reported to the IRS. The latest unofficial indication of the level of income held today in offshore tax shelters is about $7 trillion, up from $250 billion in the mid-1980s. At least $4 trillion of that $7 trillion is held by US corporations and wealthy households, the mix between corporate and individuals remaining unknown. An annual additional net flow of income from the US into such shelters is easily around $200 billion a year, not counting interest earned annually on the $4 trillion already there


If you believe any of this, you should be shitting a brick right about now...
 
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Hans

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If you vote for a Republican President this time I'm trying to figure out why. Yes, it's got to be because their heart is where you want a President to be, low taxes for the rich, big talk about religion but not acting like Christians, huge number of scandals from money grubbing bastards and two faced homophobes, those values?

In addition, this Republican Administration lied us into a war that has lasted longer than WWII, they have raped the taxpayers Treasury war with no bid contracts, and they have done their best to deregulate the U.S. Government leading to things like, I don't know, the burst housing bubble, 90 banks on the bust (as in going bust) list, degradation of the environment, a non-existant energy policy (other than go-drill-more-wells) and the wreck of the U.S Economy?

And if you are one of those who think labor unions are bad, compared to this Administration you can have a real laugh or get sober, get real, and realize the real threat to our country is currently in charge of it.

For your consideration: Deregulation: The Global War on Labor. BTW, this article blames, Carter, Reagan, Clinton, but W most of all. Labor, yes, most of you reading this in the U.S. is under attack. You've got your values and you've got your pocketbook. I guarantee that unless you are a millionaire, you are not a member of the Republican club. And if you are a worker voting Republican, you're just a sucker helping the big boys achieve their goals while shooting yourself in the economic foot.

Can you attest to any of the following? And if you are down on unions, I guarantee that unions and a pro-labor government is what got most of your parents decent jobs.

While the tax, trade, wage and benefits policies were being implemented top down during the two decade between 1980-2006 under four presidents from both parties, deregulated corporate policies and practices that further contributing to the growing income inequality gap were being simultaneously overhauled from the bottom-up, shifting from full-time, permanent jobs to part-time, temporary, and independent contract work. Growing consistently since the 1980s, more than 44 million of the 137 million employed workforce in the US, close to one third, are now part-time, temporary, and contract workers earning 60-70% of the pay of full-time workers and typically 20% of the benefits.

///

Management promoted de-unionization policies launched in the 1980s resulted in the decline of union membership from 22% of the workforce in 1980 to barely 7% in the private sector in 2006. Two decades of corporate job outsourcing policies sent millions of high-paying, liberal benefit jobs in manufacturing, technology, and business professional services overseas, a loss filled with lower paying domestic service jobs—frequently part-time, temp, and contract jobs. Corporate fringe benefits policies shifted fundamentally during the same period, resulting in the dismantling of more than 100,000 traditional pension plans and their replacement with cheaper cost 401-K plans; the discontinuance and/or shifting of costs of health insurance plan coverage; widespread unilateral corporate elimination of retiree health benefits; reduction of paid vacation and other paid time off; and other similar company-driven cost reduction measures.
///

Health Care and Pension
Government agency rule changes allowed corporations to extract pension fund surpluses for general business use and/or to delay properly funding pension plans. Government bodies like the National Labor Relations Board directly aided corporate efforts to de-unionize while government de-regulation and privatization of entire industries further decimated union membership ranks and undermined union bargaining effectiveness.
///

Given the magnitudes of these income shifts from workers, it is not surprising that corporate profits have increased at double digit rates every quarter for the last three and a half years to more than $1.4 trillion; or that CEOs and the top 5 managers of US corporations have increased their total share of national income from around $50 billion a year in 2001 to more than $140 billion a year in just five years; or that the wealthiest 1% (1.1 million) households have seen their share of total national income reported grow to levels of 20-22% of total national income, levels not seen since the gilded age of the 1920s.

National income that passes through the conduit of the corporation is disbursed to shareholders, senior managers, and CEOs in the form of dividends, interest payment, capital gains, and various forms of deferred and total compensation. What is not disbursed may be accumulated and expended on corporate expansion (i.e., invested) or held by the corporation as retained profits or used for share buy-backs to lift share prices. Official figures for retained profits by US corporations are now at the level of more than $500 billion a year, about $200 billion a year higher than long term historical averages.

And those figures only represent retained profits that are reported. Largely unreported are additional profits by multinational corporations that get transferred by various accounting means to their offshore subsidiaries and affiliates and then held there as un-repatriated profits for years to avoid US taxes. The precise totals for such un-repatriated profits are not known, either by the IRS or the US government. Morgan Stanley in 2005 reported that the total in offshore un-repatriated profits held by US corporations amounted to about $700 billion.

A third and even more opaque category of profits consists essentially of unknown profits from domestic US or foreign operations that are diverted to offshore tax shelters and never reported to the IRS. The latest unofficial indication of the level of income held today in offshore tax shelters is about $7 trillion, up from $250 billion in the mid-1980s. At least $4 trillion of that $7 trillion is held by US corporations and wealthy households, the mix between corporate and individuals remaining unknown. An annual additional net flow of income from the US into such shelters is easily around $200 billion a year, not counting interest earned annually on the $4 trillion already there
That honestly is kind of a blantant smash at Republicanism. Im not really one sided on a political party, but I could make a list just like yours complianing about how ignorant or stupid it would be to vote for a Democrat. As for the taxation on the rich, I am middle class at best, and I think its silly to tax more just because a person has more. One way or another they have EARNED that money. Who are we to say that we should take a larger percentage just because they have so much?

I know of one of my friends grandparents who passed away with a large inheritance to his spouse. If Obama is put into office, she will lose roughly 45% of that inheritance, mostly from taxs. How is that fair? Its a large amount of money, but just because its large, who ar we to take a larger amount of it?

The list gos on, but all Im trying to say is just because your view dont match those of someone elses doesnt make them any less intelligent.

To be honest, I didnt read the article, just the post.
 

Minor Axis

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That honestly is kind of a blantant smash at Republicanism. Im not really one sided on a political party, but I could make a list just like yours complianing about how ignorant or stupid it would be to vote for a Democrat. As for the taxation on the rich, I am middle class at best, and I think its silly to tax more just because a person has more. One way or another they have EARNED that money. Who are we to say that we should take a larger percentage just because they have so much?

I know of one of my friends grandparents who passed away with a large inheritance to his spouse. If Obama is put into office, she will lose roughly 45% of that inheritance, mostly from taxs. How is that fair? Its a large amount of money, but just because its large, who ar we to take a larger amount of it?

The list gos on, but all Im trying to say is just because your view dont match those of someone elses doesnt make them any less intelligent.

To be honest, I didnt read the article, just the post.

How about just read the quotes. :) I have not called anyone stupid. You probably won't ever believe this but I used to vote Republican. They have totally lost their way besides not caring squat for the little people. You mean the millionaires can't afford to pay a higher percentage of their earnings, why not? That has always been a progressive tax policy philosophy. As Warren Buffet, the billionaire said, "Is there any reason my sectretary should be paying a higher percentage of her earnings to taxes than I do?" Obviously he thinks the answer is no. When you've got millions or more money than you can spend, are you really going to care if you pay 15% or 30% to taxes? Well, yes the greedy bastards will care. :)

How about some documentation that Obama is going to take 45% of her inheritance? That sounds like the usual Republican fear mongering at work. You do know why the current inheritance laws are the way they are don't you? It's not for you and me. It's so millionaire, billionaire families like the Waltons (as in Sam Walton/Walmart) don't have to pay any taxes on their billions. Sure they sold it as being unfair for the working class but as usual, that was not the real focus. It was another benny for the rich folk.

Anyone here know of anyone who works for a large company like Target who would normally be working a full time job, but have been kept part time so the corporation does not have to pay benefits? I know 3. And my cousin who used to work for Target knew bunches and bunches. This is corporate America avoiding paying the worker health care really in hopes that some other entity such as the tax payer will pick up the tab.
 

Minor Axis

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Disclaimer: I realize I am coming across as a raving Republi-phobe, but my wraith is specifically pointed at this Administration, those who facilitated them, and the current state of the country. I realize there are good wholesome, honest Republican representatives out there, and if I fault them it is mostly for going with the flow which is a human trait and weakness. At one time there really were Republican Presidents with morals and a work ethic, who wanted to see the country move forward and I mean for everyone to move forward, not just the fat cats.

So I apologize if I have offended anyone (except Fox). ;) But people, we don't need 4 more years of the same fun and games. Let's pick a real change. Hey, I liked Ron Paul, but he's not running...
 

Alien Allen

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I wish Ron Paul was a tad younger and charismatic. That guy would have stirred up some serious shit. Plus I am closest to being a libertarian which is what is.

Too bad our country is full of stupid and apathetic voters. They like the shine of an Obama who can talk real pretty. And they buy into whatever McCain sells.

God damn this shit really sucks that we keep electing these miscreant morons.
 

Minor Axis

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John McCain's voting record at Women for Barack Obama. He's anti-labor, mostly anti-women (although he did vote no on an abortion ban bill, if I got that right), anti-low income children, anti-medicaid. He voted to use Social Security funds to pay off the National Debt. (Please note, that if government in general had not been robbing Social Security since forever, it would not have any problems today. Don't let anyone tell you S.S. is a pyramid scheme. Let me correct that, it would not be in crisis today if not for spending policies for at least the last 50 years.) And he has voted against bills who's intent was to reduce our dependance on oil (see the Energy section). If you like unrestricted gun ownership, McCain is your man. Also check out the Section on Defense and Homeland Security in the link.

Women's Health and Well Being:
Comprehensive Sex Education
NO
Global Gag Rule
NO
International Family Planning Funding
NO
Emergency Contraception
NO
The Right to Choose
NO
Abortion Access for Women in the Military
NO
Abortion Ban
NO
Patient Privacy
NO
Comprehensive Family Planning
NO
Fetal Rights
NO
Teen Health and Safety
NO
Violence Against Reproductive Healthcare Providers
NO
Supreme Court Nominations
NO
Health Care for Low Income Families
NO

Michael DeBakey, Heart Surgeon (September 7, 1908-July 11, 2008): "A responsible society should supply good health care to its members." (paraphrased).
 

Minor Axis

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Democrat vs Republican Score Card

Feel free to add your own rebuttals or charges!

Charge: Republicans are more fiscally responsible than Democrats.
Rebuttal: Clinton left office with a large budget surplus, Bush and the Republican Party has driven the economy into record deficits. Fiscally responsibility has evaporated under the Republican party. The trillion dollars spent on the useless Iraq war could have repaved every road, rebuilt every bridge, and funded universal health care in the U.S, but would the Republican party have ever approved that? Not in a thousand life times because that is not where their priorities lie.

Charge: Republicans tough on defense and Democrats are weak.
Rebuttal: Republicans move towards war, any war eagerly. Democrats are smarter about which battles to fight at least in recent history. However the Iraq war is a case of outright fraud perpetrated on American citizens by a manipulative forces in our government with an agenda against Iraq.

Charge: Democrats put people above business while Republicans do the opposite.
No Rebuttal: That's true. And democrats are more generous with tax payer dollars when it comes to social programs than Republicans are. I'll leave it to you to decide if that is good or bad. The Democratic party finally realizes that job exportation is bad. Have you ever heard a Republican worry about U.S. workers?

Charge: Republicans are more Christian than Democrats.
Rebuttal: Under the self-cited most religious political party there have been a record number of scandals- sexual, influence peddling, and fraud. Does not sound very Christian-like to me.

Charge: Republicans scam people into thinking they are members of the Party.
No Rebuttal: True again. If you are a single issue voter- gun control, conservative religious, pay no taxes, smaller government (that's a hoot), the Republican party wants you to join them. But you won't really be a member of that party until you are a millionaire. However, if you believe in people above business, that's all it takes to be truly a member of the Democratic party in actuality or at least spiritually.

CBS News Oct 2000 Bush gazed around the diamond-studded $800-a-plate crowd and commented on the wealth on display:
"This is an impressive crowd - the haves and the have-mores," quipped the GOP standard-bearer. "Some people call you the elites; I call you my base."
 

Minor Axis

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This list came from Bush's Resume and it was all done with Republican Party approval. This is why I can't currently vote Republican...

* Spent the huge surplus left him by the Clinton administration and bankrupted our nation’s treasury.
* Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.
* Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.
* Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
* In just two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their jobs.
* Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in U.S. history.
* Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.
* Presided over a 45% increase in the loss of home ownership in America since the year 2000.
* Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in U.S. history.
* Signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any president in U.S. history.
* Presided over the biggest energy crises in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.
* Presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.
* Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.
* Dissolved more international treaties than any president in U.S. history.
* The wealthiest cabinet ever in U.S. history. (the ‘poorest’ multi-millionaire, Condoleeza Rice had a Chevron oil tanker named after her).
* Presided over the biggest corporate stock market frauds of any market in any country in the history of the world.
* Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.
* Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in U.S. history.
* First president in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the human rights commission.
* Withdrew from the World Court of Law.
* Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in U.S. history.
* Made the United States the least, rather than most, respected member of the entire United Nations.
* Refused to allow independent inspectors access to U.S. prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.
* First president in U.S. history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. elections).
* All-time U.S. (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.
* George W. Bush’s biggest life-time campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).
* First president in U.S. history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.
* First president to run and hide when the U.S. came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)
* First U.S. president to establish a secret shadow government.
* Took the biggest world sympathy for the U.S. after 911, and in less than a year made the U.S. the most detested country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in U.S. and world history).
* With a policy of ‘dis-engagement’ created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.
* First U.S. president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view his presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.
* First U.S. president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the U.S. than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.
* Changed U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
* Led the defeat of changes in U.S. policy that would have denied government contracts to U.S. companies moving their headquarters off-shore, so as to avoid paying income taxes to our country.
* Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated U.S. law by not selling huge investments in corporations that bid for government contracts.
* In the 18 months following the 911 attacks I have successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.
* Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in U.S. history.
* In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the U.S. has ever been since the civil war.
* Entered office with the strongest economy in U.S. history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.

AND somewhere I hear Mulder clapping...
 

Peter Parka

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I'm looking forward to November, bonfire night,you know, Guy Fawkes and how he tried to blow up parliment. Probably wouldn't be a bad thinkg to happen in America either, Big firework display < whatever douche you get as president. :D;):ninja
 

lumpenstein

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How do you feel about next November?

I don't trust Obama. It's a gut instinct but I don't think he should run the country. McCain? Just the latest puppet of the right, out to do what's right for them and not necessarily for the country. Conclusion? America is screwed no matter who wins.
 

Alien Allen

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I don't trust Obama. It's a gut instinct but I don't think he should run the country. McCain? Just the latest puppet of the right, out to do what's right for them and not necessarily for the country. Conclusion? America is screwed no matter who wins.
You are Canadian

So your opinion is useless unless you want to contribute to the US Commie party

Enough said :24:
 

lumpenstein

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:p
You are Canadian

So your opinion is useless unless you want to contribute to the US Commie party

Enough said :24:

My opinion may be useless but you are totally useless! I may contribute to the commie party but you contribute nothing to good sense and civilization! Go away you damn yankee and stay the hell out of canada! :p:p
 

lumpenstein

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BTW--where did you come up with lumpenstein? What the hell does that mean anyway?
I have no idea. I was in that other forum and wanker(wacor bill) insulted me so I wanted to insult him back and I couldn't think of anything to say and lumpenstein just popped into my head. It sounds kind of German. Lumpen sounds like he's a lump and stein is German for rock and there's not much denser than that!
 

Fox Mulder

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I have no idea. I was in that other forum and wanker(wacor bill) insulted me so I wanted to insult him back and I couldn't think of anything to say and lumpenstein just popped into my head. It sounds kind of German. Lumpen sounds like he's a lump and stein is German for rock and there's not much denser than that!

Shouldn't wacor have that name then? ;)
 

Minor Axis

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I have no idea. I was in that other forum and wanker(wacor bill) insulted me so I wanted to insult him back and I couldn't think of anything to say and lumpenstein just popped into my head. It sounds kind of German. Lumpen sounds like he's a lump and stein is German for rock and there's not much denser than that!

I thought it ment you take the "lumps" so you're lumpenstein. :)
 
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