Heck, He might've been Buddhist

[edgray]

I personally do not believe in any of the religious doctrine. Time and time again it's shown to be in complete contradiction to reality. Jesus may very well have lived, as a carpenter and someone with strong religious beliefs perhaps. But miracles? Unprovable and undocumented. And highly unlikely given none have happened since and what we know about the natural world and the laws that govern it. Some fish and a couple of loaves of bread cannot feed more than a few people.

And this is my point with religion in general. Contrary to what some might think we know, we simply do not know. The possibility of there NOT being a God increases with every scientific study that removes the magic and mysticism from the known universe and explains natural phenomena with mathematics. If something can be explained with mathematics, it means God certainly did not create it directly.

Perhaps God made the universe and these mathematical laws? If that's the case, which I'm truly open to, it shows immediately that ALL religious doctrine to this point has been wrong. God's hand has never touched the Earth, the Bible has lied. And we might have to rethink exactly what God is. Is he omnipotent as originally thought, or simply a being who is experimenting with his own reality, like we are. A trans-dimensional scientist?

If someone chooses to believe in God then great, as long as it doesn't hinder scientific inquiry in any way, shape or form, nor in anyway interfere with the running of other people's lives. Which unfortunately, it has a tendency to do. I believe it also hides the real beauty of the universe from people. The truth is, the God explanation for all things is so dull and boring: a big magic dude whisking the universe into being, is such a cop-out story compared to the reality...

First, there was darkness. Then, a fracturing of symmetry, 1 force becomes 4, then there was electro-magnetism, and only then, could there be light - some of which would condense to become something like quarks and gulons, which in turn become protons and electrons, and all of this within a millionth of our universe's first second. In the next 3 minutes, cosmic expansion reduces the energy density, lowering the temperature to 1billion Kelvin. Electrons cannot combine with nuclei to make the first true atoms, it won't be cool enough for that to happen for another half a million years...

Sadie made this comment to me:

I feel sorry for you. Life must be so dull for you having to have an explanation for everything, every feeling, every mystery that is existence.

And nothing could be further from the truth. Reality is an amazing thing, the universe we live in is so immense, so breathtakingly gigantic that just our own tiny little galaxy is beyond all comprehension. Without having the scientific explanation for things like this, we'd have no idea just how immense our galaxy is. I have a insatiable thirst for our universe, I want to know everything about it, and the only way to do that is to understand science. Putting everything down to God basically saying you don't care what the universe is, nor how it got here, nor how it works.

For those that don't know: there are thought to be around 100 billion stars in our galaxy. 100 billion. with the closest distance between them being several light years of distance. When you look at this size of just our galaxy, this immense and incredibly powerful machine with power and energy and destructive forces that make God's wrath seem pathetic and juvenile in comparison, you have to just stand back in awe. It's amazing. And we only can see this thanks to science and the explanations it provides.

Going out even further, there are thought to be another 100 billion of galaxies similar to our own throughout the universe, which is possibly hundreds of billions of light years across.

Once you comprehend the scope of this, once you see just how mind-blowingly big this universe is, and then you compare that to the religious notion of a God that is petty and hateful, that demands worship, that judges behaviour and casts those non-believers into a pit of fire... A God that once flooded the Earth to kill his sinful children... That God, in comparison to just our tiny galaxy, is a pathetic creature - a spoilt child whose own power pales into insignificance when even compared to that of just our own Sun...

... Or, he could have made everything...

We just don't know.

Try on a different view point, and share your thoughts with me: http://offtopicz.net/showthread.php?t=71826

 

[Minor Axis]

I personally do not believe in any of the religious doctrine.http://offtopicz.net/showthread.php?t=71826

Without quoting the entire quote, I am very sympathetic to this view.

 

[Accountable]

From what I know the Biblical character called Jesus is a pretty cool dude from a social perspective. He had a good moral sense. I don't want to call it my problem or issue, but my critique is that Jesus is not used as just a moral basis, he is used as the path to salvation. If people could resist the urge act in a negative way based upon the premise there would be nothing wrong with it. The 'negative' ranges from prejudice to murder to genocide. My cup over flowth with examples in history and today.

Agreed. I see that in a smaller sense Paul (guy in the Bible) did the same thing. They take Jesus' teachings and try to make it fit into their own lives while changing as little as possible. Frinstance, I don't believe Jesus ever condemned homosexuality (could be wrong) but Paul was able to bring it up somehow and apply it to the religion of peace and love. Jesus never mentioned force, coercion, or anything like that.

This is not so much a problem but another critique is that typically people who hold Jesus up demean the human race by implying that this moral basis does not come from ourselves but from God. I suggest that morals come from within, not from without.

We're animals. Left to our own devices, we can be a bit ruthless, unless and until we see ourselves as part of a group. Then our social instincts perk up. Maybe Moses went up that mountain and thought up all those commandments, rather than some fiery bolt from the sky burning them into a rock, like the movie shows. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's what really happened. But I don't see a conflict. God made Man with all the sense & instincts. Whether directly or indirectly, our moral sense comes from God. I don't see it any more controversial than someone getting their curly hair from their mom. It still grows out of your own head, right?

 

[Accountable]

I personally do not believe in any of the religious doctrine.

I think you do, when broken down to its bits. I mean, who doesn't believe we shouldn't murder? It's the set, I think, and taking the set as a group of rules to be enforced and obeyed lest ye be punished, I heartily agree.

Time and time again it's shown to be in complete contradiction to reality. Jesus may very well have lived, as a carpenter and someone with strong religious beliefs perhaps. But miracles? Unprovable and undocumented. And highly unlikely given none have happened since and what we know about the natural world and the laws that govern it. Some fish and a couple of loaves of bread cannot feed more than a few people.

Ever since I first heard that one as a little kid, I could imagine Jesus passing the couple loaves & fish bits into the crowd ... then the other greedy bastards feeling guilty and pulling out their own lunches to share. Magic? Nah. But miracle? I guess that depends on the crowd. I freely & without guilt pick and choose what I wish to believe and practice from the Bible, just as I would weigh a friend's advice and take some or none of it, as I saw fit. I guess that makes me a backslid heathen, but I'm comfortable with it.

And this is my point with religion in general. Contrary to what some might think we know, we simply do not know. The possibility of there NOT being a God increases with every scientific study that removes the magic and mysticism from the known universe and explains natural phenomena with mathematics. If something can be explained with mathematics, it means God certainly did not create it directly.

Perhaps God made the universe and these mathematical laws? If that's the case, which I'm truly open to, it shows immediately that ALL religious doctrine to this point has been wrong. God's hand has never touched the Earth, the Bible has lied. And we might have to rethink exactly what God is. Is he omnipotent as originally thought, or simply a being who is experimenting with his own reality, like we are. A trans-dimensional scientist?

I don't follow your logic here. If God made the universe and natural & mathematical laws, how does it follow that he didn't create the earth? Also, why can't He be both omnipotent and a trans-dimensional scientist? Frankly, I would be fairly comfortable if we found out that some advanced society set us up as some kind of petri dish. But then the curiosity of where they came from would be the next question.

We just don't know.

No, we don't.

 

[Maldoror]

I think you do, when broken down to its bits. I mean, who doesn't believe we shouldn't murder? It's the set, I think, and taking the set as a group of rules to be enforced and obeyed lest ye be punished, I heartily agree.

Morality is not a religious invention. That's my main dispute with religious people. Empathy, compassion, love are human, not divine virtues.

 

[BornReady]

I believe Jesus Son of Joseph is the human form of the god Yahweh, who shed his own blood in sacrifice for us and rose again.

Isn't this human sacrifice to propitiate God? I suspect it makes you cringe that the Aztecs did it. Why does it seem good to you because the Hebrews did it?

Does it make sense to you for a person to be punished for the sins of another? Occasionally this happens through a failure in our court system and it's always considered an injustice. Even if someone wants to pay for your sin, how is it moral to allow him to do so?

 

[Leah Love]

I read a book about his "missing years"...you know...the years the bible totally skims over..when he "wandered the desert"

It tells how he DID travel and study not only Buddhism....but he learned his miracles with Indian "gurus"...studied with the Essenes in Egypt....it was one of the most interesting books I have ever read:thumbup

http://www.amazon.com/Lamb-Gospel-A...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1296529791&sr=1-1


:unsure:



:24:




:surrender

 

[cam elle toe]

http://www.amazon.com/Lamb-Gospel-A...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1296529791&sr=1-1


:unsure:



:24:




:surrender

:24::clap...no, not that one either.....but I am intrigued....."BIFF":24::clap

 

[Leah Love]

:24::clap...no, not that one either.....but I am intrigued....."BIFF":24::clap

I listened to the audio book and would burst out laughing even while walking down the street. Just couldn't help it. It was hilarious. :24:

 

[USF Sam]

http://www.amazon.com/Lamb-Gospel-A...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1296529791&sr=1-1


:unsure:



:24:




:surrender

Brilliant book.

It's a comedy, but its also an interesting idea. It shows Jesus' life as told by his best friend, Biff. Follows him from the age of 5 onwards. Explains how Jesus studied Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism throughout India and China.

Fun fact: Jesus invented the mocha latte. :nod:

 

[cam elle toe]

Brilliant book.

It's a comedy, but its also an interesting idea. It shows Jesus' life as told by his best friend, Biff. Follows him from the age of 5 onwards. Explains how Jesus studied Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism throughout India and China.

Fun fact: Jesus invented the mocha latte. :nod:

Does Jesus' mocha latte have his image in the milk froth?

 

[USF Sam]

Does Jesus' mocha latte have his image in the milk froth?

Nope... that appeared on the cookies.

Seriously.

 

[cam elle toe]

Nope... that appeared on the cookies.

Seriously.

Yeah? Too funny. Ima gonna look out for this one:nod:

 

[Leah Love]

Nope... that appeared on the cookies.

Seriously.

Isn't it on the bread? I remember the incident when all of the town's bread has Jesus' image on it when he was just a little boy. Was there another? Can't remember.

Oh and his mom calls for him by her face appearing in mud :24:

.. gosh I need to reread it, I am blanking on some stuff.. AND I need a good laugh

 

[cam elle toe]

Isn't it on the bread? I remember the incident when all of the town's bread has Jesus' image on it when he was just a little boy. Was there another? Can't remember.

Oh and his mom calls for him by her face appearing in mud :24:

.. gosh I need to reread it, I am blanking on some stuff.. AND I need a good laugh

SHHHHH no more....I wanna read it:nod:

 

[edgray]

I think you do, when broken down to its bits. I mean, who doesn't believe we shouldn't murder? It's the set, I think, and taking the set as a group of rules to be enforced and obeyed lest ye be punished, I heartily agree.

But disagreeing with murder isn't a religious phenomenon - the valuing of life isn't something that's exclusively pushed by religion. Humans are social creatures and are raised with social considerations in mind, irrespective of religious views. Humans have lived with murder as being a bad thing since we first climbed out of the trees and wandered onto the plains.

I don't follow your logic here. If God made the universe and natural & mathematical laws, how does it follow that he didn't create the earth? Also, why can't He be both omnipotent and a trans-dimensional scientist? Frankly, I would be fairly comfortable if we found out that some advanced society set us up as some kind of petri dish. But then the curiosity of where they came from would be the next question.

No it's not saying he didn't create the Earth indirectly, but the old notions of him creating the Earth by direct intervention in the natural world just doesn't hold water. In the same way he didn't create man by intervening in the natural world.

There wouldn't be any point him being a scientist if he is omnipotent though, is there? Omnipotence gives him the power do whatever he wants, so he wouldn't need science to explain the natural world, or his natural world, because he wouldn't have to abide by the natural rules of that world. It would be quite limiting for him.

Yes, if he is indeed a scientist, we could simply be the product of an experiment. He may even not know that we are here, he might be theorising himself: having created a universe that has laws that simply permit life. He might be looking for us as we are looking for him, curious to see if his experiment has born fruit.

No, we don't.

This is the only thing we do know for sure!

 

[Minor Axis]

Agreed. I see that in a smaller sense Paul (guy in the Bible) did the same thing. They take Jesus' teachings and try to make it fit into their own lives while changing as little as possible. Frinstance, I don't believe Jesus ever condemned homosexuality (could be wrong) but Paul was able to bring it up somehow and apply it to the religion of peace and love. Jesus never mentioned force, coercion, or anything like that.

So if Jesus was a live and let guy and if the Quran is truely a peaceful document, then as a whole, human beings have done a terrible job living up the God's standard. This is the harm. People take little snippets of their favorite holy book and then run amuck. Yes I'm probably prejudice due to Western orientation, but I'd say that Christianity is light years ahead of Islam, at least the Middle East variety, but I'll quickly acknowledge that Islam could be suffering a cultural deficiency. Example: backpack bombers blowing up innocents. Regardless of the reason the harm is still there. And this country (U.S.) appears to have a substantial group of people more than willing to turn us into theocracy if they could. That is another type of harm.

In case it looks like I'm a non-repentant Islam basher, I'll say that I believe there are lots of moderate live-and-let-live Muslims in this world.

We're animals. Left to our own devices, we can be a bit ruthless, unless and until we see ourselves as part of a group. Then our social instincts perk up. Maybe Moses went up that mountain and thought up all those commandments, rather than some fiery bolt from the sky burning them into a rock, like the movie shows. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's what really happened. But I don't see a conflict. God made Man with all the sense & instincts. Whether directly or indirectly, our moral sense comes from God. I don't see it any more controversial than someone getting their curly hair from their mom. It still grows out of your own head, right?

Your right that our morals grow out of our heads and maybe at some level, through some process, it was 'God' who put this ability there. But this is speculation. I find it irritating when theists claim that it is only belief in God which gives us our moral center. The implication is that Atheist have no morals. That notion is completely without merit and has to do with visions of self-superiority when someone believes they are owned by a 'God'.

 

[edgray]

 

[BornReady]

Yes I'm probably prejudice due to Western orientation, but I'd say that Christianity is light years ahead of Islam, at least the Middle East variety, but I'll quickly acknowledge that Islam could be suffering a cultural deficiency.

Exactly! To be fair, if we're going to compare Christians and Muslims then we need to compare American Christians and American Muslims. When you do that, if you take Christianity as a whole, then the scale tips a little toward Christianity imo. But if you compare American Muslims with fundamentalist Mormons then the scale favors the Muslims.

In some posts you may see me defending American Muslims against fundamentalist Christians. That's only because fundamentalist Christians would trample their rights if allowed to. But I don't defend Muslims because I like their religion.

The implication is that Atheist have no morals. That notion is completely without merit and as to do with visions of self-superiority when someone believes they are owned by a 'God'.

Thanks! I get tired of theists telling me I don't have any morals because I'm an atheist. Or maybe it's because I'm sex crazed.

 

[HK]

Or maybe it's because I'm sex crazed.

How you doing? :ninja