Guantanamo To Close

[SgtSpike]

That's what makes America, America. You have to proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
Saddam Hussein. We accused him of having weapons of mass destruction which started a war that's killed how many people so far? He got a trial. He knew what he was charged with and he was convicted. So Saddam Hussein got justice and the people in Gitmo get tortured and have been stripped of every basic right but that's ok? I can't see it. I don't think I ever will and I think that it's about time we stop hiding behind 9/11 and terrorism and stand up for justice and what our fore fathers faught and sacrificed their lives for. Candidly, I think they'd be ashamed of the sheep like mentality that has overcome our nation.

Well, yeah because we knew we had enough to convict Saddam! If we didn't, I bet he never would have been put on trial, but we still would have held him because of the threat against our country by his harboring of terrorists.

The people in Gitmo are held for a reason - they are suspected of being a part of terrorist activities. I don't know what part of "dangerous" you don't understand, but these guys are dangerous men. They want to harm Americans in any way they can. And you want to release them for a lack of evidence? That's just crazy IMO. I'd rather do everything possible to not have a nuke hit LA, or whatever other kind of terrorism those guys are planning.

 

[Wookiegirl]

Well, yeah because we knew we had enough to convict Saddam! If we didn't, I bet he never would have been put on trial, but we still would have held him because of the threat against our country by his harboring of terrorists.

The people in Gitmo are held for a reason - they are suspected of being a part of terrorist activities. I don't know what part of "dangerous" you don't understand, but these guys are dangerous men. They want to harm Americans in any way they can. And you want to release them for a lack of evidence? That's just crazy IMO. I'd rather do everything possible to not have a nuke hit LA, or whatever other kind of terrorism those guys are planning.

I understand dangerous JUST fine sweetheart.
Here's what I don't understand. I don't understand how you can rationalize holding HUMAN BEINGS without any just cause, evidence and strip them of all their basic, VERY BASIC rights. I don't understand how that seems alien to you.
You talk about thousands of lives versus one life? Bushy and the boys sent us to Iraq to hunt down weapons of mass destruction that didn't exist. That mistake to date has cost:

Iraqi troops killed: 30,000
Iraqi civilians killed: 668,051
U.S. troops killed: 4,209
Other coalition troops killed: 315
Contractors killed: 917
Journalists killed: 160
Total killed in Iraq: 703,652

Iraqi troops seriously injured: 90,000
Iraqi civilians seriously injured: 1,202,491
U.S. troops seriously injured: 55,923
Other coalition troops seriously injured: 945
Contractors seriously injured: 10,569
Journalists seriously injured: unknown
Total injured in Iraq: 1,359,928

And now I'm supposed to trust that these people in Gitmo are dangerous cuz they told me so? Fool me once, shame on you....fool me twice, shame on me. That's really all I have to say on the matter.

 

[dt3]

That's what makes America, America. You have to proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

BUT the big difference here is that they aren't Americans and weren't captured on US soil. I understand the argument for basic human rights, and I fully support that. However we cannot subject these prisoners to US law or give them the rights we enjoy as citizens under our Constitution.

If a US citizen was arrested by Iran for terrorism, and Iran wanted to try him in their courts, we would shit a brick and demand he be turned over to us for a trial. However, we can't do that with these prisoners because of two reasons. Either we would be turning them over to a country know to support terrorism, or we'd be turning them over to a country that would rather just kill them and be done with it.

That's why I see the current military tribunals as the only logical way to handle the situation. And I don't believe these tribunals are in any way biased because of the amount of prisoners they have released.

So what I'm trying to get across is that they should have a trial, but it should be by military tribunal.

 

[SgtSpike]

I understand dangerous JUST fine sweetheart.
Here's what I don't understand. I don't understand how you can rationalize holding HUMAN BEINGS without any just cause, evidence and strip them of all their basic, VERY BASIC rights. I don't understand how that seems alien to you.
You talk about thousands of lives versus one life? Bushy and the boys sent us to Iraq to hunt down weapons of mass destruction that didn't exist. That mistake to date has cost:

Iraqi troops killed: 30,000
Iraqi civilians killed: 668,051
U.S. troops killed: 4,209
Other coalition troops killed: 315
Contractors killed: 917
Journalists killed: 160
Total killed in Iraq: 703,652

Iraqi troops seriously injured: 90,000
Iraqi civilians seriously injured: 1,202,491
U.S. troops seriously injured: 55,923
Other coalition troops seriously injured: 945
Contractors seriously injured: 10,569
Journalists seriously injured: unknown
Total injured in Iraq: 1,359,928

And now I'm supposed to trust that these people in Gitmo are dangerous cuz they told me so? Fool me once, shame on you....fool me twice, shame on me. That's really all I have to say on the matter.

Makes sense, and I can understand your distrust of the government. But, I still trust the government, and I trust that they are doing what they need to do to protect us. I have always agreed with the war in Iraq, and that is where you and I differ (obviously), and I believe that holding these people is the right thing to do to protect us.

IMO, not everyone DESERVES human rights.

 

[dt3]

IMO, not everyone DESERVES human rights.

They might not deserve it, but imo we're obligated to give it to them anyway.

 

[UppinSmoke]

Guantanamo closure plan ordered
US Defense Secretary Robert Gates has ordered plans to be drafted for the closure of the Guantanamo Bay detention centre, the Pentagon says.
A team was looking at moving inmates from the facility in a way that continued to protect the American people, a spokesman said.
About 250 detainees remain in the controversial camp in Cuba.
US President-elect Barack Obama says closing the camp "in a responsible way" is one of his top priorities.
Mr Obama takes office on 20 January.
Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said Mr Gates - who is to retain his position in the new administration - had wanted to be prepared in case Mr Obama wished to tackle the issue "early in his tenure".
"He has asked his team for a proposal on how to shut it down, what will be required specifically to close it and move the detainees from that facility, and at the same time protect the American people from dangerous terrorists," he said.
The Guantanamo Bay prison opened shortly after the attacks of 11 September 2001. Hundreds of men suspected of links to terrorism or al-Qaeda were held without trial as "unlawful enemy combatants".
Many are now challenging their detention in civilian courts, after the Supreme Court ruled in June that they could.
Some officials have warned that closing the camp will be an extremely complicated process.
But earlier this week, Mr Obama said he aimed to shut the facility within two years.

Story from BBC NEWS:

:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap

Damn, there goes my 'Time Share' deposit. :mad

 

[Tim]

IMO, not everyone DESERVES human rights.

I'm not even sure how to respond to this... You are a very misguided soul.

Everyone deserves basic human rights, everyone. No exception. And if you can't understand that, then maybe you should go look up what it means to have basic human rights.

 

[Wookiegirl]

I'm not even sure how to respond to this... You are a very misguided soul.

Everyone deserves basic human rights, everyone. No exception. And if you can't understand that, then maybe you should go look up what it means to have basic human rights.

:homo:
You said that way better than I did

 

[Minor Axis]

So, you don't care that one (or more) of those guys who are currently being detained would probably repeat 9/11 if there was any possible way that he could?

I don't understand Americans... it's like they want to paint a target on our country, saying "Here, we're good and easy to hit with terrorist attacks, have at it!"

No one is saying that these detainees are good people. But apparently you don't care if our standards for due process under the law are upheld or not. Our country used to stand for something when it comes to individual liberties. The current Administration did all it could to subvert the Geneva Conventions, a standard (until the Bush Administration) that this country stood behind. It's disgraceful and corrupt. One day you may be locked up for some reason and you may be left wondering what happened to your civil liberties. You see you checked out a book from the library about Al Queda, and someone decided to identify you as a terrorist...

 

[SgtSpike]

No one is saying that these detainees are good people. But apparently you don't care if our standards for due process under the law are upheld or not. Our country used to stand for something when it comes to individual liberties. The current Administration did all it could to subvert the Geneva Conventions, (a standard until the Bush Administration) that this country stood behind. It's disgraceful and corrupt. One day you may be locked up for some reason and you may be left wondering what happened to your civil liberties. You see you checked out a book from the library about Al Queda, and someone decided to identify you as a terrorist...

To be honest, if I was locked up for a few years because I was suspected to be a terrorist, but at the same time, we were keeping other terrorists at bay whom we didn't have enough proof to convict, I would be ok with that sacrifice. I'm not going to put myself or my family ahead of the security of the nation.

 

[Peter Parka]

Would you mind being waterboarded too? Frankly your reply shows you have no idea about the effect of imprisonment to you. You may think you do but you really dont unless you have experienced it.

 

[Minor Axis]

To be honest, if I was locked up for a few years because I was suspected to be a terrorist, but at the same time, we were keeping other terrorists at bay whom we didn't have enough proof to convict, I would be ok with that sacrifice. I'm not going to put myself or my family ahead of the security of the nation.

Here, have some more special Kool-Aid.

 

[Strauss]

Would you mind being waterboarded too? Frankly your reply shows you have no idea about the effect of imprisonment to you. You may think you do but you really dont unless you have experienced it.

Are you speaking from experience? How long were you locked up and what for? Or, should I be saying, how long are you locked up for and for what?

 

[Peter Parka]

Are you speaking from experience? How long were you locked up and what for? Or, should I be saying, how long are you locked up for and for what?

I've had two prison sentences, 12 months and 11 weeks. One for something I did, the other for something I didn't. Even prison in an enlightened country like mine fucks you up and I didn't have to be waterboarded either. Things like that never leave you, regardless of whether you deserved it or not.

 

[Strauss]

I've had two prison sentences, 12 months and 11 weeks. One for something I did, the other for something I didn't. Even prison in an enlightened country like mine fucks you up and I didn't have to be waterboarded either. Things like that never leave you, regardless of whether you deserved it or not.

So it appears they made their point. That's why "things like that never leave you", they aren't suppose too.

 

[Wookiegirl]

So it appears they made their point. That's why "things like that never leave you", they aren't suppose too.

Yeah but what about to the people that aren't guilty that they haven't charged yet.
They'll have things that never leave them when they've done nothing.

 

[Peter Parka]

So it appears they made their point. That's why "things like that never leave you", they aren't suppose too.

And you think that is right if you havent done anything wrong, do you?

 

[SgtSpike]

All I have to say is this: I will never put a handful of people ahead of an entire country.

 

[Peter Parka]

All I have to say is this: I will never put a handful of people ahead of an entire country.

All I have to say is you talk shit about stuff you know nothing about

 

[SgtSpike]

All I have to say is you talk shit about stuff you know nothing about

Lol, if you say so.