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ngdawg

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I think history has proven the existence of a Saint Nicolas which spawned the legacy of Santa Claus. But of course that story was twisted and turned into fantasy. Last time I checked there were no flying reindeer (of course, some of you hardcore evolutionists might argue that it's possible).

*Sits back and waits for someone to say that the Bible and Jesus were stories that got twisted into fantasy as well*
You got your wish...
The stories about Jesus have absolutely no basis in fact. There's not one shred of evidence that anything in the way of miracles that have been attributed to him ever occured.
You can walk on water-if it's ice. You can turn water into wine-if you add fruit yeast and wait a while. Feed thousands with a fish and a loaf of bread? Doubtful at best. Die, get entombed, rise from the dead, move a huge boulder and start visiting your followers? Hah...right.
Look at some of the other bible stories starting with Adam and Eve and working through Moses, Noah, Job, etc. Then objectively ask yourself how are these things even remotely possible? Answer: they aren't. Any more than a fat man in a sleigh can deliver gifts to all believing kids just by having the sleigh pulled by flying reindeer.
 
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Chimera

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At the very least....we can trace the evolution of the Santa Clause Myth:

"
How did the kindly Christian saint, good Bishop Nicholas, become a roly-poly red-suited American symbol for merry holiday festivity and commercial activity?
The first Europeans to arrive in the New World brought St. Nicholas. Vikings dedicated their cathedral to him in Greenland. On his first voyage, Columbus named a Haitian port for St. Nicholas on December 6, 1492. In Florida, Spaniards named an early settlement St. Nicholas Ferry, now known as Jacksonville. However, St. Nicholas had a difficult time during the 16th century Protestant Reformation which took a dim view of saints. Even though both reformers and counter-reformers tried to stamp out St. Nicholas-related customs, they had very little long-term success; only in England were the religious folk traditions of Christmas permanently altered. (It is ironic that fervent Puritan Christians began what turned into a trend to a more secular Christmas observance.) Because the common people so loved St. Nicholas, he survived on the European continent as people continued to place nuts, apples, and sweets in shoes left beside beds, on windowsills, or before the hearth.


The New York Historical Society held its first St. Nicholas anniversary dinner on December 6, 1810. John Pintard commissioned artist Alexander Anderson to create the first American image of Nicholas for the occasion. Nicholas was shown in a gift-giving role with children's treats in stockings hanging at a fireplace. The accompanying poem ends, "Saint Nicholas, my dear good friend! To serve you ever was my end, If you will, now, me something give, I'll serve you ever while I live."
The jolly elf image received a big boost in 1823, from a poem destined to become immensely popular, "A Visit from St. Nicholas," now better known as "The Night Before Christmas."

He was dressed all in fur, from his head to his foot,
And his clothes were all tarnished with ashes and soot;
A bundle of toys he had flung on his back,
And he looked like a peddler just opening his pack.

His eyes—how they twinkled! his dimples how merry!
His cheeks were like roses, his nose like a cherry!
His droll little mouth was drawn up like a bow,
And the beard of his chin was as white as the snow;

The stump of a pipe he held tight in his teeth,
And the smoke it encircled his head like a wreath;
He had a broad face and a little round belly,
That shook, when he laughed like a bowlful of jelly.
He was chubby and plump, a right jolly old elf. . . ."



The same cannot be said of the story of Jesus, let alone his portrayal as a Son of God. Perhaps the facts are lost to time as there was very little written documentation of his life, or simply a corruption of the story at the hands of man.....seriously, who can know. Quite simply put, we do know Santa is a myth, as documented above, and we know virtually nothing factual of the Christ.....Thus we have the faithful.
 
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Well....

If you look into history, who wrote The Bible? Did God write it? Nope: he couldn't have, he's up in heaven. Did Jesus? Well, not really. The New Testament was written after his death. So, who wrote it? The followers of Jesus. Regular men. As history has proven many, many times before, man is generally willing to use evil to attain the greater good. So, of course they see the greater good is spreading the word of Jesus. So, they would have no problem bending the truth a little to make Jesus's events more convincing. Some of these followers were more dedicated than others, willing to bend more than others.

Also, you have to take into account that this sacred text was written and rewritten hundreds of times over several millenia. Over which, the church has rised to dominance. Now, The Catholic Church has displayed countless acts of evil for their perception of the greater good. The Templar Knights were essentially Catholic Killing machines that were fueled by the Church. They were used during the Crusades, the Catholic attempts to slaughter hundreds of Muslim warriors to take back their Holy Land. All of those attempts failed. The Catholic Church is also not a stranger to corruption, as seen in the Renaisance, when churches were requiring steep donations as guarantees that the donors would go to heaven. In response, a German man, Martin Luther, created the first Protestant Church. These are only a couple of the examples of dirt on the Catholic Church over the years.

Now, also take into account that whoever wins in history gets to burn the old textbooks and write the new ones. With that said, and knowing that the Catholic Church was dominant and willing to follow through with the greater good, its extremely likely that they revised The Bible several times throughout history.

This is why I pray to God. I prefer a personal relationship with God, than a relationship with a church.

Sorry if this is a tedious read. I've argued this point a few times before. I guess you can say this is my cup of tea :D
 

andcuriouser

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Not to nitpick...

But the "Old Testament" is basically the Jewish Torah. So, there's no Jesus in that, and it couldn't be spreading his word.

I'm not arguing as such. You have your faith and you are welcome to believe it. Just pointing it out. :tongue:
 

sharpies

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That's the bit that always gets to me Leland - the fact that the 3 major world religions all share a major part of their beliefs & yet all they want to do is to kill each other, even though God says "Thou shalt not kill".

It's a weird world full of weird people with weird ideas.

Allan
 

Scooter

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The man who asked the question to the girl seems to be making false connections. For example, it would be like saying... Do you believe that George Washington existed... "Certainly" "Then why don't you believe that Santa exists?" He is drawing a relation between whether someone existed and whether someone exists and not between whether someone (Jesus) did something (such as miracles) and someone exists. Really those two things are not connected at all.

At least that is just my view on it. :)
 

Nightflight

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I think it's all down to what we see as reasonable to believe.

Last time I checked there were no flying reindeer
"According to the Alaska Department of Fish and Game, while both male and female reindeer grow antlers in the summer each year, male reindeer drop their antlers at the beginning of winter, usually late November to mid-December. Female reindeer, however, retain their antlers until after they give birth in the spring. Therefore, according to every historical rendition depicting Santa's reindeer, every single one of them, from Rudolph to Blitzen..... had to be a female. We should have known this.... Only women would be able to drag a fat man in a red velvet suit all around the world in one night, and not get lost."
 

SnapeIsNotEvil!!!

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This is a very good question.

And I guess like, as far as Santa is concerned... I don't know.

There has been proof that Jesus existed at some point in history.

On the topic of Santa...we have no proof he existed, ever. There is evidence of a St. Nicholas who was said to have gone around giving toys to poor children at orphanges. So yes, in a way, Santa did exist at one point in time since Santa is based on St. Nicholas but....you know, I don't think the Santa everyone is familiar with ever existed. But hey...who knows
 

memento_mori

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"If you believe in Jesus, who made water into wine, what says Santa isn't real?"

From a structural/functionalist approach, believing in Santa Clause becomes dysfunctional because the child will stop getting free presents from their parents under the guise of santa clause, the other kids will stop getting presents too, and then they themselves will have to get presents for everyone else. The delusion of Santa Clause at that point will only raise the child's expectations and alienate him from his peers (the ones that think people who believe in Santa Clause are stoopid, anyway).

Belief in Christ, however, is functional since it helps the child relate with the millions of others that believe in Christ. Plus, where as Santa Claus is exclusively about getting presents, Christ is about forgiveness of sins, guiding you through hard times, and acting as a moral compass- which the child will undoubtedly never run out of. And that's why we should teach our children about the love of Jesus.


:jk
 

HottyToddyChick

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Old thread, I know, but I gave my mom the silent treatment for a week when I found out Santa didn't exist. I thought it was the same as her lying to me. He still visits me though...
 
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