funny conversation with a liberal

[hart]

I'm pro-choice. That I am firm on. But on the other issue, I do see some crimes I think people should die for. When crimes are particularly cruel. Manson-type serial killing. Raping and killing children, raping, taking babies out of mothers and killing the fetus', torturing then killing people for hours.........sick stuff that was planned. If you can't guarantee they will never get out again I want them dead. If the murderer wishes to be dead rather than life in prison, let's let him die, I agree with that too.

I think with DNA testing has stop sending all those innocent people to jail as was to often the case, as in the past. I do think no one should be given the death penalty solely on eye witness testimony though-that has been found to be unrealiable far too often.

 

[Mercury]

I'm pro-choice. That I am firm on. But on the other issue, I do see some crimes I think people should die for. When crimes are particularly cruel. Manson-type serial killing. Raping and killing children, raping, taking babies out of mothers and killing the fetus', torturing then killing people for hours.........sick stuff that was planned. If you can't guarantee they will never get out again I want them dead. If the murderer wishes to be dead rather than life in prison, let's let him die, I agree with that too.

I think with DNA testing has stop sending all those innocent people to jail as was to often the case, as in the past. I do think no one should be given the death penalty solely on eye witness testimony though-that has been found to be unrealiable far too often.

Well said!

 

[Joe the meek]

See we found some good middle ground. I think too swift is bad, primarily because of the dumbfounding amount of cases where it has been proven that innocents were put to death.

I think there needs to be enough time for a neutral party (i.e. an appellate court) to rummage through the evidence and hopefully come to two conclusions:

A. This is the person whodunnit
B. The punishment fits the crime

If they can say this with absolute certainty I say make it happen

The problem is, the general public assumes that the prosecution and it's "work force" (AKA the district attorney / local-state police) actually want the "truth" in a court of law.

A while ago I was personally involved (I knew both parties) in a murder case. Seemed like a close shut case where the husband killed his wife (as the prosecution claimed he did).

Well, this man had money, and he had a great defense team. Turns out that the state crime lab actually fabricated some of the evidence against him (yes, they actually made it up). Kind of funny when the state crime lab was following "procedures" set forth by well known people in the forensic field and those same well known people testified in court that the crime lab fabricated evidence. Now, as a "normal citizen" myself, I would never assume the state would make up evidence against someone, why would they?

People being people, even those in charge of protecting us can get over zealous in their pursuits and may actually break the law themselves if they want to hang someone.

On a side note, the North Carolina state crime lab has really had it's share of issues now, particularly on cases where evidence provided by the state crime lab proved crucial in a conviction.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

The problem is, the general public assumes that the prosecution and it's "work force" (AKA the district attorney / local-state police) actually want the "truth" in a court of law.

A while ago I was personally involved (I knew both parties) in a murder case. Seemed like a close shut case where the husband killed his wife (as the prosecution claimed he did).

Well, this man had money, and he had a great defense team. Turns out that the state crime lab actually fabricated some of the evidence against him (yes, they actually made it up). Kind of funny when the state crime lab was following "procedures" set forth by well known people in the forensic field and those same well known people testified in court that the crime lab fabricated evidence. Now, as a "normal citizen" myself, I would never assume the state would make up evidence against someone, why would they?

People being people, even those in charge of protecting us can get over zealous in their pursuits and may actually break the law themselves if they want to hang someone.

On a side note, the North Carolina state crime lab has really had it's share of issues now, particularly on cases where evidence provided by the state crime lab proved crucial in a conviction.

Do some research on Harris County, Texas and the issues they have had. I'm with you most of the way. But it's really hard to allow people to walk because some people in the system are corrupt.

At some point you have to put some faith in the system and move towards a common goal. Society shouldn't have to be afraid of lib-less persecution, but shouldn't have to walk amongst criminals either.

 

[UncleBacon]

You mean like they did back in the day with public hangings in the town square?

Steal a few horses and get caught, you would be tried and hung in less than a week. A public hanging at that. Yet you don't ever read about that time period as being a crime free era.

Our country has a very long history of capital punishment. With and without the appeals process. If it had any deterrent factor to it at all, it would be documented.

so tim lets just say someone broke into your house and raped murdered or molested your wife and children making you watch as you were helpless to do anything....you would be happy with them just being in jail? I by no means ever wish this on anyone but this is a case I recently read about...the man was made to watch as his family was sexually assaulted and butchered....he had 2 daughters by the way....the felon that did it was caught and identified by him as he new very well what he looked like and is awaiting the death penalty...but with the system the way it is this case has been dragged out with appeals since his death sentence with liberals protesting for mercy and making threats against the father/husband himself for being pro death penalty.....is that really a person that deserves to live? we have come a long way with technology for forensics and yes innocent people still sometimes get incarcerated but it really is few and far between....human error is always going to be a factor and people are always going to commit crimes....how often do you really read about innocent people in prison...you will read more often than not how violent criminals beat the system and get out of the trouble they got into and then do it again

 

[Tim]

so tim lets just say someone broke into your house and raped murdered or molested your wife and children making you watch as you were helpless to do anything....you would be happy with them just being in jail? I by no means ever wish this on anyone but this is a case I recently read about...the man was made to watch as his family was sexually assaulted and butchered....he had 2 daughters by the way....the felon that did it was caught and identified by him as he new very well what he looked like and is awaiting the death penalty...but with the system the way it is this case has been dragged out with appeals since his death sentence with liberals protesting for mercy and making threats against the father/husband himself for being pro death penalty.....is that really a person that deserves to live? we have come a long way with technology for forensics and yes innocent people still sometimes get incarcerated but it really is few and far between....human error is always going to be a factor and people are always going to commit crimes....how often do you really read about innocent people in prison...you will read more often than not how violent criminals beat the system and get out of the trouble they got into and then do it again

I would want vengeance, I would want to see him swing from a tree. But my vengeance does not equal justice. There is a very good reason why we allow the criminal justice system handle criminals. It is the basis for living in a civilized society.

I would be equally devastated if the justice system was not set up to protect the innocent and my son was falsely accused of a crime and executed by the state.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

I would want vengeance, I would want to see him swing from a tree. But my vengeance does not equal justice. There is a very good reason why we allow the criminal justice system handle criminals. It is the basis for living in a civilized society.

I would be equally devastated if the justice system was not set up to protect the innocent and my son was falsely accused of a crime and executed by the state.

I'm calling well said :thumbup

 

[Mercury]

I would want vengeance, I would want to see him swing from a tree. But my vengeance does not equal justice. There is a very good reason why we allow the criminal justice system handle criminals. It is the basis for living in a civilized society.

I would be equally devastated if the justice system was not set up to protect the innocent and my son was falsely accused of a crime and executed by the state.

Well said, Tim. Law without justice is madness. Justice without law is chaos.

 

[UncleBacon]

I would want vengeance, I would want to see him swing from a tree. But my vengeance does not equal justice. There is a very good reason why we allow the criminal justice system handle criminals. It is the basis for living in a civilized society.

I would be equally devastated if the justice system was not set up to protect the innocent and my son was falsely accused of a crime and executed by the state.

so if the justice systems sends him to death wouldn't that be the system settling your vengeance

 

[Joe the meek]

I would want vengeance, I would want to see him swing from a tree. But my vengeance does not equal justice.

I have no doubt that the jury would find you not guilty using a weapon to protect your family.

Problem in the US is that most rely upon others for their protecting, which will usually come way to late.

 

[Tim]

I have no doubt that the jury would find you not guilty using a weapon to protect your family.

Problem in the US is that most rely upon others for their protecting, which will usually come way to late.

I do not rely on anyone for protection. I live too far out in the middle of nowhere to do that.

And I would have no problem using force to protect my family. But measured force. I won't be shooting someone because they are on my property, unless they were advancing with weapon drawn....

I am not paranoid nor do I think I will ever need to arm myself on my own property, but if it ever came to it, I would have no problem taking a life to protect my family.
But there is a HUGE difference in taking a life while they are in the act of aggression and after the fact that they have been disarmed and safely detained.

 

[Joe the meek]

I am not paranoid nor do I think I will ever need to arm myself on my own property

Then why do you own guns you paranoid mofo

I am not that naive to think that there are no evil men in this world.

 

[Tim]

Then why do you own guns you paranoid mofo

I am not that naive to think that there are no evil men in this world.

I own them because they are fucking fun to shoot

 

[usandthem]

I would want vengeance, I would want to see him swing from a tree. But my vengeance does not equal justice. There is a very good reason why we allow the criminal justice system handle criminals. It is the basis for living in a civilized society.

Exactly why I am against it too.