funny conversation with a liberal

[UncleBacon]

I recently had what I considered a funny conversation with a liberal about abortion and the death penalty....now this liberal was pro choice and felt very strongly about it on the other hand he was against the death penalty and felt equally as strong about that....when I asked him doesn't that make you a hyporcrite he was dumb founded....now I'm pro choice but I'm also pro death penalty just to clear up any questions where I stand in this arguement....now back to the liberal...he asked how does that make me a hyporcrite...and I answered him by saying you want to save the life of a convicted felon that might of murdered raped molested ect... but you are willing to kill an innocent life before its born....I'm sure some of you will argue when life starts but I'm pretty sure you can see the hypocracy in this logic...

 

[Joe the meek]

Funny.

I'm pro choice and against the death penalty.

I don't consider myself a liberal.

I'm also smart enough to understand that the death penalty is NOT a deterrent.

That said, the only reason why I feel I may be a hypocrite is that although I'm against the death penalty, I feel that some crimes are so heinous and the evidence so clear to cast guilt that some evil men don't deserve to live. Then again, I'm not their judge.

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

The death penalty does not act as a deterrent, and there is historic precedent that innocent men have been executed on the basis of faulty evidence.
As to abortion....it's not an issue that I will ever have to address, as I have no uterus. Leave it to those affected to decide .

 

[usandthem]

If you took the emotional aspect out you would probably understand why someone can be pro choice and anti death penalty.
Abortion debate is not about the innocent "baby", it is about a woman' right to birth control and being in charge of her fertility. Pregnancy happens, it always will and that isn't going to change. Its not the governments job to dictate the morals of others, just like its not the governments job to take the life of a citizen.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Bacon, you know I have always been right leaning. HOWEVER, I have been questioning ALOT lately and recently I pondered....since when did the government get into the vagina business?

On a serious note, it should be left up to the state to decide. Although I might not like it personally, ultimately I think people should have the ability to decide for themselves what's okay and not okay for them.

 

[AUFred]

The death penalty is a deterent to the individual criminal. His crime spree is over. I am pro-life as far as abortion goes purely from a moral standpoint. I do not believe the government should be involved with abortion one way or the other.

 

[Joe the meek]

The death penalty is a deterent to the individual criminal. His crime spree is over.

Long story short, for one to be killed by the state for committing a crime, generally you have to have an idiot for a lawyer.

You're correct that the person killed by the state may not be able to kill again, but how many innocent men have been killed by mistake? However, knowing that if you murder someone may get you a death sentence does NOT deter most people capable of the act.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Long story short, for one to be killed by the state for committing a crime, generally you have to have an idiot for a lawyer.

You're correct that the person killed by the state may not be able to kill again, but how many innocent men have been killed by mistake? However, knowing that if you murder someone may get you a death sentence does NOT deter most people capable of the act.

Any logical person understands it isn't deterrent. It's revenge. I mean I'm okay with it if they are truly guilty.

 

[AUFred]

Long story short, for one to be killed by the state for committing a crime, generally you have to have an idiot for a lawyer.

You're correct that the person killed by the state may not be able to kill again, but how many innocent men have been killed by mistake? However, knowing that if you murder someone may get you a death sentence does NOT deter most people capable of the act.

Your first statement is part of the problem with the death penalty. If the evidence is overwhelming then the sentence should be carried out in a timely manner. Most people convicted of a capital crime stay in prison for another 20 years at least before justice is served. As far as people convicted and sentenced and killed by the state who were innocent I believe that is less likely today just because the science is far more precise. If a swift death penalty were the rule instead of the exception it would be a deterent.

 

[Joe the meek]

Any logical person understands it isn't deterrent. It's revenge. I mean I'm okay with it if they are truly guilty.

What about a crime of passion? What if the killing was done by accident? What if the person is truly shows remorse over the act?

I just kind of find it somewhat amusing how many "hard core" Christians I come across in the South who proclaim the word of God, and yet they're the first ones to scream that the state should be able to kill to maintain order LOL I swear, some of them if they could, they'd be the first ones in line to pick up their stone and a stoning LMFAO.

"Vengeance is mine saith the Lord"

And it's a lot harder to forgive those who have trespassed against us.

 

[Joe the meek]

If a swift death penalty were the rule instead of the exception it would be a deterent.

And where do you get your data from to come to this conclusion?

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

What about a crime of passion? What if the killing was done by accident? What if the person is truly shows remorse over the act?

I just kind of find it somewhat amusing how many "hard core" Christians I come across in the South who proclaim the word of God, and yet they're the first ones to scream that the state should be able to kill to maintain order LOL I swear, some of them if they could, they'd be the first ones in line to pick up their stone and a stoning LMFAO.

"Vengeance is mine saith the Lord"

And it's a lot harder to forgive those who have trespassed against us.

Well I have no idea about your state. Here we have culpability requirements.

In a nutshell a capital crime here is the killing a peace officer, firefighter, murder in the commission of another felony etc.

Killing the guy banging your wife doesn't get you the death penalty unless you paid for it to happen

 

[AUFred]

probably the same place you got the SO MANY innocent men put to death for crimes they did not commit. Swift justice whether the death penalty or any other punishment is far more a deterent than the present system where too many are walking around who should be behind bars. We have had several murders within the last month here committed by individuals who had continuously had run ins with the law and even committed other murders who were out on the street.

 

[Joe the meek]

In a nutshell a capital crime here is the killing a peace officer, firefighter, murder in the commission of another felony etc.

I can still scratch my head on how the driver of the getaway vehicle can get the death penalty and the person who did the actual killing gets life in prison.

As I mentioned, ultimately, to be able to let the state kill you only means you had an idiot lawyer.

 

[Joe the meek]

probably the same place you got the SO MANY innocent men put to death for crimes they did not commit. Swift justice whether the death penalty or any other punishment is far more a deterent than the present system where too many are walking around who should be behind bars. We have had several murders within the last month here committed by individuals who had continuously had run ins with the law and even committed other murders who were out on the street.

You didn't answer my question Fred, where did you get your data?

How does swiftly killing those who have killed lower the murder rate? I'm just asking for data, not what's in your local newspaper and you coming to a generalization.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

I can still scratch my head on how the driver of the getaway vehicle can get the death penalty and the person who did the actual killing gets life in prison.

As I mentioned, ultimately, to be able to let the state kill you only means you had an idiot lawyer.

I do not think there should be deal making in capital crime cases. If there is, that just means the prosecution either doesn't have the evidence to convict, or doesn't want to make the effort.

That's not a fault of anyone except a system that is badly broken by the people who run it....lawyers

 

[Tim]

If a swift death penalty were the rule instead of the exception it would be a deterent.

You mean like they did back in the day with public hangings in the town square?

Steal a few horses and get caught, you would be tried and hung in less than a week. A public hanging at that. Yet you don't ever read about that time period as being a crime free era.

Our country has a very long history of capital punishment. With and without the appeals process. If it had any deterrent factor to it at all, it would be documented.

 

[Joe the meek]

I do not think there should be deal making in capital crime cases. If there is, that just means the prosecution either doesn't have the evidence to convict, or doesn't want to make the effort.

That's not a fault of anyone except a system that is badly broken by the people who run it....lawyers

You'll get no argument from me on your comments as I happen to agree with you.

However, when the legal system was "swift and severe" as some would argue it had been in the past, exactly how many innocent men were dealt with by the state?

To some extent, I'd like to think we've come a far way from the lynching mentality our country has had in it's past, which made us no better than those in the sand box who would stone someone to death for adultery.

 

[Kyle B]

I've never really taken a firm stance on the death penalty as I can see both sides. I think it should be for the states to decide.

However, If you kill someone (and I mean that it's pre-medidated and proved beyond a reasonable doubt etc.) then you should spend the rest of your life in prison whether or not you get the death penalty.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

You'll get no argument from me on your comments as I happen to agree with you.

However, when the legal system was "swift and severe" as some would argue it had been in the past, exactly how many innocent men were dealt with by the state?

To some extent, I'd like to think we've come a far way from the lynching mentality our country has had in it's past, which made us no better than those in the sand box who would stone someone to death for adultery.

See we found some good middle ground. I think too swift is bad, primarily because of the dumbfounding amount of cases where it has been proven that innocents were put to death.

I think there needs to be enough time for a neutral party (i.e. an appellate court) to rummage through the evidence and hopefully come to two conclusions:

A. This is the person whodunnit
B. The punishment fits the crime

If they can say this with absolute certainty I say make it happen