Fiscal cliff ? or is it ?

[Alien Allen]

I am starting to think the best thing that could happen is for the morons in DC to fail this weekend

Perhaps we should rethink this mess

Sure we all want to keep taxes low but after all this is only going back to the Clinton rates

Then we get massive cuts in the military

We have been played. This shit was not supposed to happen with the so called fiscal cliff as the drop dead point where they would have to come up with some concessions on both sides

The whole mess is a joke. The tax cuts will only be putting a bandaid on a gash to the jugular. And there are no cuts. Only cuts in how much expenditures raise.

So lets all just get ready and take the dive off the cliff.

It may not be so bad after all.

TM and Stone I respectfully request you not making a parsed pissing match out of this thread that goes off topic.

IMO..... There is something here worth discussing without getting into minutiae.

 

[The Man]

I am starting to think the best thing that could happen is for the morons in DC to fail this weekend

Perhaps we should rethink this mess

Sure we all want to keep taxes low but after all this is only going back to the Clinton rates

Then we get massive cuts in the military

We have been played. This shit was not supposed to happen with the so called fiscal cliff as the drop dead point where they would have to come up with some concessions on both sides

The whole mess is a joke. The tax cuts will only be putting a bandaid on a gash to the jugular. And there are no cuts. Only cuts in how much expenditures raise.

So lets all just get ready and take the dive off the cliff.

It may not be so bad after all.

TM and Stone I respectfully request you not making a parsed pissing match out of this thread that goes off topic.

IMO..... There is something here worth discussing without getting into minutiae.

I am starting to think the best thing that could happen is for the morons in DC to fail this weekend

Failing actually sounds like a good idea.
That will send em back in...I want to see some real change,,,the change we were promised.
And to give Obama credit I think he is demanding it for a change.

The whole mess is a joke. The tax cuts will only be putting a bandaid on a gash to the jugular. And there are no cuts. Only cuts in how much expenditures raise.

If I remember the cuts amounted to very little and were over a 10 year period...I want to see a half trillion cut off in one year..then the next

TM and Stone I respectfully request you not making a parsed pissing match out of this thread that goes off topic

I agree ....I wont engage him...hopefully he will do the same.

 

[Stone]

I've always enjoyed debating with you, AA, and against you.
I will respect your wishes with the best of intentions.

It may not be so bad after all.

That Ted video that Accountable posted was quite interesting and I suspect close to reality.
What Congress can't/won't agree to now will likely occur as compromise in January.
While the stock market has been down, there hasn't been the expected 25% drop in these last few days as some of the fear mongers had predicted. The last trading day of 2012 is Monday and probably a short day...so that will be interesting to watch.

 

[Alien Allen]

Thanks guys

I like debating you both also

Just don't get into where every sentence is parsed... time after time

We can still have a great discussion though without doing that

 

[The Man]

Have a list of the latest cut proposals?...My internet sucks right now

 

[Alien Allen]

I hear about so called cut proposals but nothing I have seen a link to

Also I have not really done any looking at what the "sequestor" involves

I usually would check on stuff like that but have been lazy

It is supposed to be bad but not sure why.

All I recall was there being extensive cuts to the military

 

[The Man]

I hear about so called cut proposals but nothing I have seen a link to

Also I have not really done any looking at what the "sequestor" involves

I usually would check on stuff like that but have been lazy

It is supposed to be bad but not sure why.

All I recall was there being extensive cuts to the military

Well some cuts to the military could be made..I think it makes up only 19 percent of the budget...so even a hard cut there wont do much.
IMO they need to slash unneededs altogether...then slash 10 percent off what they keep..perhaps have an effective cut of 15 percent...reasonable for the first year..then they could shave a little more next year.
But ideally I would like to see a half trillion cut per year..just isnt going to happen though

These tax hikes worry me...not the rich tax hikes...but the payroll tax hikes...harmful to small business..With Obama care already looming over it will just be another burden...not good in a slowed economy.

 

[Francis]

I am starting to think the best thing that could happen is for the morons in DC to fail this weekend

Perhaps we should rethink this mess

However you look at this it will need to make the power houses happy to stabilize the markets.. Until that happens it will surely drive many people crazy with impatience, as it already has, looking at the ups and downs of the markets.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/12/29/investing/stocks-lookahead/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


As well I was just reading an article on how this will affect 90% of the tax paying population in the US including the lowest bracket 0-20K / year.

With the 1'er taking the brunt of the tax increases it needs to be noted that everyone will need to reset to the new levels..



http://money.cnn.com/2012/12/28/news/economy/fiscal-cliff-middle-class/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

 

[Accountable]

Well there's only one day left, and they called a one-hour meeting on Friday making progress. When will the first side blink?

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2012/12/28/ac-fiscal-cliff-deadline-strategy.cnn

 

[The Man]

However you look at this it will need to make the power houses happy to stabilize the markets.. Until that happens it will surely drive many people crazy with impatience, as it already has, looking at the ups and downs of the markets.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/12/29/investing/stocks-lookahead/index.html?hpt=hp_t2


As well I was just reading an article on how this will affect 90% of the tax paying population in the US including the lowest bracket 0-20K / year.

With the 1'er taking the brunt of the tax increases it needs to be noted that everyone will need to reset to the new levels..



http://money.cnn.com/2012/12/28/news/economy/fiscal-cliff-middle-class/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Those lower brackets going up equate to less spending power...not good as non necessity items help stimulate the economy...Make em live with less money they have less to blow....Not a good time to be raising taxes IMO..I may head to Canada yet

 

[The Man]

IMO they should just close some loop holes for those 100 k or 250 k and above.
I cant stress it enough on here the rich often pay less tax due to all these loop holes.

 

[Francis]

Those lower brackets going up equate to less spending power...not good as non necessity items help stimulate the economy...Make em live with less money they have less to blow....Not a good time to be raising taxes IMO..I may head to Canada yet

Sure, come on up here.. If you think Obamacare and your tax rates are too much, you will love Obama after being here a week..

But to be honest I would never trade living where I as I am in one of the world's most livable cities..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_most_livable_cities

 

[Francis]

The problem you face is doing this all in one shot..

Had you raised taxes in little steps and closed loop holes one at a time, people could have adjusted.. Do it all in one big swoop and they can't handle the big tax increased asked of them.

 

[The Man]

Sure, come on up here.. If you think Obamacare and your tax rates are too much, you will love Obama after being here a week..

But to be honest I would never trade living where I as I am in one of the world's most livable cities..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_most_livable_cities

Its just not the Obama care etc.....Many Americas just aren't American anymore.
Congress being a good example they are not looking our for our interest...hell if they were they wouldnt have to argue over budget cuts and tax hikes...its just a personal score like playing basketball..its about the game not the outcome.

 

[Accountable]

The problem you face is doing this all in one shot..

Had you raised taxes in little steps and closed loop holes one at a time, people could have adjusted.. Do it all in one big swoop and they can't handle the big tax increased asked of them.

I agree. That's how we got into this mess, one step at a time.

 

[Stone]

The problem you face is doing this all in one shot.. Had you raised taxes in little steps and closed loop holes one at a time, people could have adjusted.. Do it all in one big swoop and they can't handle the big tax increased asked of them.

Agreed......but our political process is so damn polarized, policy seems to swing dramatically with each administration change. And that is not good for financial planning.

 

[Alien Allen]

Agreed......but our political process is so damn polarized, policy seems to swing dramatically with each administration change. And that is not good for financial planning.

a good observation

however I think voters are also to blame.

most voters do not look at the big picture over time but are more about what is hot at the moment

and both parties are very adept at demonizing the other party over crap that is not important but hits on the emotions

 

[Stone]

a good observation

however I think voters are also to blame.

most voters do not look at the big picture over time but are more about what is hot at the moment

and both parties are very adept at demonizing the other party over crap that is not important but hits on the emotions

Agreed.

 

[Francis]

a good observation

however I think voters are also to blame.

most voters do not look at the big picture over time but are more about what is hot at the moment

and both parties are very adept at demonizing the other party over crap that is not important but hits on the emotions

Is it just me or has it really gotten bad since the 1980's.. Laws seemed to be repealed/amended much more since then and at every opportunity possible..

No progress is made if you keep going one step forward and two steps back :willy_nilly:

 

[Accountable]

Define "progress" as it pertains to legislation.