Don't ask, don't tell

[Tim]

In the military, one's sexuality should not be an issue, therefore the don't ask, don't tell should not apply. I am so tired of special rules for special people. Make one law for all so that it is equal. Many say that special laws must be made because of discrimination. Wrong. Get rid of laws that discriminate and enforce the ones that are equal for all. Hold all to the same standard.

It's not a special rule for special people. Maybe you aren't clear on the DADT policy, but it basically states that if you are gay, you can join the military. BUT, if we find out that you are gay, we can discharge you from service. In other words, they won't ask your sexual orientation when you join. AND if you are gay, don't tell anyone or you might be discharged.

That is not a special rule... that's just the government saying keep your mouth shut and don't let us find out about it.
The DADT policy was the best they could get away with legally at the time.

"Don't ask, don't tell" is the common term for the U.S. military policy which implements Pub.L. 103-160 (10 U.S.C. § 654). Unless one of the numerous exceptions from 10 U.S.C. 654(b) applies, the policy prohibits anyone who has sexual bodily or romantic contact with a person of the same sex from serving in the armed forces of the United States, and prohibits any homosexual or bisexual from disclosing his or her sexual orientation, or from speaking about any homosexual relationships, including marriages or other familial attributes, while serving in the United States armed forces. The policy also requires that as long as gay or bisexual men and women in the military hide their sexual orientation, commanders are not allowed to investigate their sexuality.

 

[Boomer]

I think that's busted man. If someone has the skills needed for the job, his/her sexual preference should have no relevance.

 

[dt3]

Here's my two cents:

DADT has been in effect for a pretty long time now (over 10 years I believe). Any gay enlisting today knows about it. Hell, we even have yearly refresher training that covers it (among many other things). All they have to do is be discreet about it.

I've known 2 gay people in the military. One was in my shop here at Quantico. We never knew he was gay. He was one of the most well-liked people in the shop. After he got out, we found out through MySpace that he had been gay the whole time. His being gay never impacted our mission in any way.

The other gay guy I knew was while I was in Iraq. About 3 months into the year long deployment, we inadvertantly found out he was gay. Whether it's right or wrong, we all flipped. We'd showered around this guy, he lived in a room with 3 other men, changed in front of him, etc... After we found out, he was more or less shunned. Not saying it's right, but it's the truth. That had a severly negative impact on our overall mission. He was one of the senior Sergeant's in the shop, but we couldn't even stand seeing the guy. How are you supposed to take orders from a guy, in a life-or-death environment, if you're worried about him wanting to get in your pants???

 

[Charmer]

One thing about being scared that a gay guy is checking you out: How come guys always think that if a guy is gay that he is checking that other guy out? Why do people always think that being gay is just about sex and being horny? How come people don't think that way about heterosexual people for the most part? Heterosexual=normal person going about his/her day; gay=thinking about sex all the time.

 

[GuesSAngel]

word.

 

[GraceAbounds]

One thing about being scared that a gay guy is checking you out: How come guys always think that if a guy is gay that he is checking that other guy out? Why do people always think that being gay is just about sex and being horny? How come people don't think that way about heterosexual people for the most part? Heterosexual=normal person going about his/her day; gay=thinking about sex all the time.

I agree.

 

[GraceAbounds]

It's not a special rule for special people. Maybe you aren't clear on the DADT policy, but it basically states that if you are gay, you can join the military. BUT, if we find out that you are gay, we can discharge you from service. In other words, they won't ask your sexual orientation when you join. AND if you are gay, don't tell anyone or you might be discharged.

That is not a special rule... that's just the government saying keep your mouth shut and don't let us find out about it.
The DADT policy was the best they could get away with legally at the time.

I understand DADT policy and I don't agree with it. It is a 'special rule'. They need to get rid of the rules that discriminate, instead of making new rules to try to stop discrimination. All rules need to apply to all of us equally.

 

[drb]

harrison bergeron (kurt vonagut)
~not all people are created equally but all people deserve equal rights~

 

[dt3]

One thing about being scared that a gay guy is checking you out: How come guys always think that if a guy is gay that he is checking that other guy out? Why do people always think that being gay is just about sex and being horny? How come people don't think that way about heterosexual people for the most part? Heterosexual=normal person going about his/her day; gay=thinking about sex all the time.

So straight guys aren't always thinking about sex??? If you see an attractive women, you don't check her out? Why would gays be any different?

 

[Charmer]

So straight guys aren't always thinking about sex??? If you see an attractive women, you don't check her out? Why would gays be any different?

I knew someone would say that! Yes, when I see a fine-looking woman, I'm checking her out! hehe

I'm just saying that people I've been around and politicians and lawmakers, their seems to be an underlying assumption that gay people ONLY think about sex and that being gay is ONLY about sex.
So, I submit to you the fact that people do not think that straight people are always thinking about sex and that no woman is safe around a straight guy and no guy is safe around a straight woman.

But people believe that a gay person is going to jump another person of the same sex's body, regardless of that person's attraction, preferences, interests, etc.

 

[dt3]

I knew someone would say that! Yes, when I see a fine-looking woman, I'm checking her out! hehe

I'm just saying that people I've been around and politicians and lawmakers, their seems to be an underlying assumption that gay people ONLY think about sex and that being gay is ONLY about sex.
So, I submit to you the fact that people do not think that straight people are always thinking about sex and that no woman is safe around a straight guy and no guy is safe around a straight woman.

But people believe that a gay person is going to jump another person of the same sex's body, regardless of that person's attraction, preferences, interests, etc.

All I know is that it made for an extremely awkward and tense situation. Especially when we found a search he had made on MySpace looking for gay men whose descriptions perfectly fit four of the guys in our shop.

He was looking for "<26, athletic/muscular, dark-haired men within 10 miles of Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton". Wonder what type of man he's lookin for?

 

[Maritxu]

Was the end result positive.... Yes. Was it done in the best way possible... I don't think so.

Gay society is making strong gains in this country. 30 years ago you had to either hide, or face being killed. Today it is accepted almost everywhere you go. Half the characters on TV are homosexuals. I think in another generation or two, there will not be the problems with them joining the military that there is today. As our children and grandchildren grow up around open gays, they won't be as bothered by is as our parents were.

My personal feelings are that the military's job is too important to try to force our enlightened views on. Combat is a primal thing, and warriors are primal individuals. (By no means to I consider primal and uneducated the same thing).

I very much agree that there are other ways to slowly achieve things other than a peaceful revolution, but if there is an institution who has to set an example, that's the goverment. A lot of changes have occurred slowly, but each one of them was started by maybe a new law or the goverment taking the first step. When that doesn't happen is when a revolution comes.
I agree the military needs people who want to fight and are ready to do it. That's why as Grace said, they should pic the ones who do it, no matter their sex, or sexual orientation.

 

[All Else Failed]

Gays should be allowed to serve. Theres no good reason to not let them serve, its just ignorant homophobia. If anyone gets an "ooky" feeling from being around gays then they are utter imbeciles. You want to talk about unit cohesion? The Spartans had sex with each other ALL THE TIME, and they were one of the most elite fighting organizations on the planet.


I've known gay men that have served before, and have been kicked out because they simply prefer a different sexual partner. How childish is this world? He was as capable at fighting as any other person on the battlefield, but just because people are homophobic (and yes, everything in this issue can be traced back to homophobia) the military lost a valuable asset. Foolishness.


And about this "unit cohesion" thing....people said the same damn thing about colored people serving in the military. Oops, they were wrong.

 

[IntruderLS1]

Once again, people who don't agree with AEF's view on the world are "ignorant utter imbeciles."

300 was indeed a bad ass movie, but Greek city state culture was different than American culture. I thought I was pretty clear on that point earlier.

 

[dt3]

Gays should be allowed to serve.

They can. They do.

 

[All Else Failed]

Once again, people who don't agree with AEF's view on the world are "ignorant utter imbeciles."

300 was indeed a bad ass movie, but Greek city state culture was different than American culture. I thought I was pretty clear on that point earlier.

People who are homophobic ARE ignorant. Theres really no way to say otherwise. There is NO big deal about someone who prefers their own sex. To deny a person the same rights as a straight person is discriminatory and imbecilic.


Yes, American culture is still largely bigoted.

 

[IntruderLS1]

Oh, well in that case... Thanks for being so clear and absolutely infallibly correct.

Long live Sparta!!

 

[All Else Failed]

Oh, well in that case... Thanks for being so clear and absolutely infallibly correct.

Long live Sparta!!

Except in this case its not being right or infallible, but having common sense. Equal rights are common sense.