Does the Church have the right to discriminate over and above the state standards?

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Greatest I am

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Does the Church have the right to discriminate over and above the state standards?

The Gay marriage issue may be instrumental in the destruction of Church and Mosque discrimination without just cause against certain sub groups within our greater society.

Notably, Gays, women, slaves and sexual practices.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/holy-unrest-over-religious-right-to-discriminate-20110212-1areb.html

http://www.scarborougheveningnews.co.uk/news/national/fury_over_same_sex_unions_in_church_1_3087271

The tradition of the Abrahamic cults and sects has been to be anti Gay, anti the equality of women, not emancipating slaves and telling consenting adults how to handle themselves in sexual matters.

Gays are said to be abominations.
Men are told to never allow a woman to have authority over them.
Women are told to submit to their male masters.
Run away slaves are told to return to their masters and the masters are told just how to beat their slaves. Nowhere in Christianity or Islam is there instructions to emancipate or free slaves.

In our secular worlds, do Christianity and Islam have the right to promote these discriminations that exceed and go directly against the humanistic thinking that the rest of the secular world seem to be going in?

Our Governments create laws and every law is permission and indeed compulsion to discriminate against certain sub groups within our societies. These laws can be questioned and repealed if society deems them against human rights and we see this happening in an ongoing basis and notably of late, we have recognized the inappropriateness of discriminating against Gays and others for reasons of sexual orientation and divorce. Religion forbids a change in dogma and frown against any questioning.

Should Government put a stop to these groups who are in effect usurping the power of the state and your vote?

We are in effect being lead by religion and not the state or Government we vote for.
Just who is the boss and why is my vote and yours being nullified by Religion and their ultra conservative agenda?

Churches and Mosques are discriminating against those that society has found innocent of wrongdoing.

Should Religions be told and or forced to stop doing so?

Have Religions crossed the line of separation of Church and State?

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"First they came for the Jews, but I did nothing because I'm not a Jew. Then they came for the socialists, but I did nothing because I'm not a socialist. Then they came for the Catholics, but I did nothing because I'm not a Catholic. Finally, they came for me, but by then there was no one left to help me." – Pastor Father Niemoller (1946)

You or some family member may be next on a Religious hit list my friend.
Think about it.

Regards
DL
 
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brieze

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Re: Does the Church have the right to discriminate over and above the state standards

They have the right discriminate whatever they want, just like we all do. I feel forcing anyone to stop promoting their beliefs is oppression. But when any group intertwines their beliefs into the law over many that don't share their views is absolutely crossing the line. That bullshit needs to stop
 
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Peter Parka

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Re: Does the Church have the right to discriminate over and above the state standards

Its up to them but within the confines of their religion. If a church dosen't want to marry gay people, thats up to them. However if they try and stop gay people getting married anywhere else, that is wrong, for example.
 

Zorak

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Re: Does the Church have the right to discriminate over and above the state standards

Its up to them but within the confines of their religion. If a church dosen't want to marry gay people, thats up to them. However if they try and stop gay people getting married anywhere else, that is wrong, for example.

that's more or less basically what i was going to say.

I don't care if the church of England won't marry gays, just as long as that's their choice.
 

Greatest I am

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Re: Does the Church have the right to discriminate over and above the state standards

They have the right discriminate whatever they want, just like we all do. I feel forcing anyone to stop promoting their beliefs is oppression. But when any group intertwines their beliefs into the law over many that don't share their views is absolutely crossing the line. That bullshit needs to stop

How does that first link fit with your last sentence?

Should private corporations and individuals have the same privilege that the church is taking?

Is there more than one set of laws in a country?

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DL
 

Greatest I am

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Re: Does the Church have the right to discriminate over and above the state standards

Its up to them but within the confines of their religion. If a church dosen't want to marry gay people, thats up to them. However if they try and stop gay people getting married anywhere else, that is wrong, for example.

How about firing someone who happens to divorce or just go to bed with someone?

Regards
DL
 

Peter Parka

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Re: Does the Church have the right to discriminate over and above the state standards

How about firing someone who happens to divorce or just go to bed with someone?

Regards
DL

The church gets accused of hypocricy enough as it is. I really dont see how forcing them to be hypocritical by employing people to preach morals they dont practice is going to help anyone.
 

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Re: Does the Church have the right to discriminate over and above the state standards

that's more or less basically what i was going to say.

I don't care if the church of England won't marry gays, just as long as that's their choice.

They can ignore the law of the land and promote hate then?

How about firing someone who happens to divorce or just go to bed with the wrong someone?

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DL
 

Greatest I am

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Re: Does the Church have the right to discriminate over and above the state standards

The church gets accused of hypocricy enough as it is. I really dont see how forcing them to be hypocritical by employing people to preach morals they dont practice is going to help anyone.

The point is that they are discriminating on religious grounds and that is against the law for the rest of us.

Is there more than one set of laws in a country?

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DL
 

Peter Parka

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Re: Does the Church have the right to discriminate over and above the state standards

The thing I dont get about the whole gay marriage thing is why some gay people want to get married by someone homophobic in a hetro's only club. It's like a Jew moaning because he wants to join the Nazi party and they wont have him.
The same for someone who wants to get divorced. Why would you want to work for someone who dosen't think you should be allowed to get divorce in a job which involves telling others they shouldn't divorce?
 

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Re: Does the Church have the right to discriminate over and above the state standards

The thing I dont get about the whole gay marriage thing is why some gay people want to get married by someone homophobic in a hetro's only club. It's like a Jew moaning because he wants to join the Nazi party and they wont have him.
The same for someone who wants to get divorced. Why would you want to work for someone who dosen't think you should be allowed to get divorce in a job which involves telling others they shouldn't divorce?

Irrelevant even if insane.

It is not to us to question why someone wants his rights protected. It is to us as good citizens to give that protection, if due, to all under the law.

Regards
DL
 

BornReady

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Re: Does the Church have the right to discriminate over and above the state standards

The thing I dont get about the whole gay marriage thing is why some gay people want to get married by someone homophobic in a hetro's only club.

There are plenty of pastors in the USA who are happy to perform marriage ceremonies for gay couples. But in most states they aren't legally married. So, they can't file a joint tax return, make medical decisions for their partner and a bunch of other rights that married couples have.
 

HK

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Re: Does the Church have the right to discriminate over and above the state standards

Over here gay marriage is legal anywhere. I think Peter was wondering why, if you can get married most places anyway, you'd specifically want to be married by an institution that doesn't agree with your lifestyle choices.

Like lobbying to be allowed to get married in KFC if you're a vegan.

But then to be fair, I guess being gay doesn't have to mean you don't believe in God. I knew a Christian lesbian once. Her reasoning was, God must have made her that way.
 

Zorak

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Re: Does the Church have the right to discriminate over and above the state standards

They can ignore the law of the land and promote hate then?

How about firing someone who happens to divorce or just go to bed with the wrong someone?

Regards
DL

the law of the land is churches can do what they want now. the way it should be. They'll always be certain churches that welcome gays.
 

BornReady

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Re: Does the Church have the right to discriminate over and above the state standards

the law of the land is churches can do what they want now. the way it should be.

I agree. And gays should be able to do what they want too, including getting legally married. That's all the gays are asking for. They shouldn't even have to ask.
 

Peter Parka

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Re: Does the Church have the right to discriminate over and above the state standards

Over here gay marriage is legal anywhere. I think Peter was wondering why, if you can get married most places anyway, you'd specifically want to be married by an institution that doesn't agree with your lifestyle choices.

Pretty much except I'd hardly call your sexuality a lifestyle choice.
 

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Re: Does the Church have the right to discriminate over and above the state standards

What's interesting to me is that religious leaders treat homosexual marriage as a much more heavier sin compared to other sins like drug indulgence, lying, or stealing.

Perhaps they donnot marry gays because they are afraid of their own 'fate' rather than actually caring what another person does.
 

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Re: Does the Church have the right to discriminate over and above the state standards

Over here gay marriage is legal anywhere. I think Peter was wondering why, if you can get married most places anyway, you'd specifically want to be married by an institution that doesn't agree with your lifestyle choices.

Like lobbying to be allowed to get married in KFC if you're a vegan.

But then to be fair, I guess being gay doesn't have to mean you don't believe in God. I knew a Christian lesbian once. Her reasoning was, God must have made her that way.

Exactly. To her.
To think otherwise would be to think that God makes some of us just to be hated by the rest.

Regards
DL
 

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Re: Does the Church have the right to discriminate over and above the state standards

the law of the land is churches can do what they want now. the way it should be. They'll always be certain churches that welcome gays.

Quite wrong. Think J W and blood.

Regards
DL
 
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