Do people need to learn to mind their own business here? Opinions?

[Fox Mulder]

If you do something wrong, it shouldn't matter who points it out to you. You should know you're wrong and cut it out. Yeah I know emotions take a toll on reasoning, but in the end you're still wrong.

The HUGE problem there is the "do something wrong" -- that in fact is the crux of the issue--people are often dead wrong themselves about what they think is wrong. Point is its not the job of members to be judging the conduct of other members because then you have too many chiefs.

As an example, I have a very biting sarcastic sense of humor--some people understand it, like it, some people don't. But unless its directed AT YOU, you shouldn't be chastising me regarding my interaction with another member because you don't have any understanding of what relationship might exist there (not you personally, just using "you" generically).

I'll tell you also that most moderators don't like to have to step in and moderate--they'd rather stay out of it and usually are forced to act because some other weeny has stepped in an decided that he/she doesn't like something someone else said to another member and it didn't even involve that member. I could give you many examples.

 

[Fox Mulder]

I know, they definitely should cut it out when told. But most of the time, the wrong doer doesn't listen to regular users, particularly because of their lack of power over them, thus, mostly the mods contribution to the situation will suffice, whereas the regular users contribution will either do nothing or worsen the situation.

There's a foundational problem there though--the premise of OJ's statement lacks a critical foundation--that is he assumes the accuser of the alleged wrongdoer is in fact correct in his or her assessment that the wrongdoer did something wrong. And ironically, the accusation itself after a few pages is assumed by the moderator or others to be correct. And that was my biggest complaint today-- a particular member had made two separate accusations of alleged violations of rules and he was full of shit--it was his interpretation and he was dead wrong. The problem is a moderator usually doesn't go back and study the entire exchange that may go back some pages (or even across threads) he/she (the moderator) just assumes there's been some rule violation. So in essence, what it does it allows troublemakers to cause trouble by mere accusation of a rule violation--a self fullfilling accusation if you will. And there are people that use that to their full advantage realizing all they have to do is make the accusation and the chances are the accusation will stand.

 

[Strauss]

As an example, I have a very biting sarcastic sense of humor--some people understand it, like it, some people don't. But unless its directed AT YOU, you shouldn't be chastising me regarding my interaction with another member because you don't have any understanding of what relationship might exist there (not you personally, just using "you" generically).

Really, no shit and all these years I just thought you were an asshole.

(For the dim bulbs, I'm illustrating a point. No one should be offended. Mulder knows I'm joking (mostly), we've been doing this type of back and forth for years. So Mulder if you ever need me to call you an asshole again don't hesitate to let me know. )

 

[Fox Mulder]

So Mulder if you ever need me to call you an asshole again don't hesitate to let me know. )

No need to--enough other people will do it, that I'd just be piling on!!! :24:

PS (Minor--that is NOT name calling I just did right there!!!)

 

[TheOriginalJames]

The HUGE problem there is the "do something wrong" -- that in fact is the crux of the issue--people are often dead wrong themselves about what they think is wrong.

Not usually. When Veronica and Tim were writing the rules, I helped Veronica write a few of them as well. I know full well what the rules are and how to enforce them. They are pretty damn near 100% clear cut. Grey areas are very rare with the rules in place. As an example; If I see someone posting porn links and tell them to delete them, then they are flat out wrong and I'm going to tell them. Another example; If I see two people who took a debate about abortion and started talking about flowers and kittens I sure as hell can tell them to get back on topic or they'll face the consequences when i report the bullshit cluttering the thread. If they want to argue with me about it, then the moderators are going to give them more shit for being even more wrong.

 

[Neflhiem]

Not usually. When Veronica and Tim were writing the rules, I helped Veronica write a few of them as well. I know full well what the rules are and how to enforce them. They are pretty damn near 100% clear cut. Grey areas are very rare with the rules in place. As an example; If I see someone posting porn links and tell them to delete them, then they are flat out wrong and I'm going to tell them. Another example; If I see two people who took a debate about abortion and started talking about flowers and kittens I sure as hell can tell them to get back on topic or they'll face the consequences when i report the bullshit cluttering the thread. If they want to argue with me about it, then the moderators are going to give them more shit for being even more wrong.

well.. im about 100% with OJ on this one.. i mean.. all the emotion/arguing out of it, why is it wrong to tell a new person to the forum " oh hey you cant post that as per the rules" ? i mean yeah if your going to, be damn sure its a rule.. It just seems to me that, that would be the responsible/helpful thing.. but hey.. honestly. its V's and the staffs boards so if they dont want us to.. thats cool If i ever see something, i can just as easily ignore it and report it and not tell the person.. really its cool either way.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Not usually. When Veronica and Tim were writing the rules, I helped Veronica write a few of them as well. I know full well what the rules are and how to enforce them. They are pretty damn near 100% clear cut. Grey areas are very rare with the rules in place.

No offense, but that's just plain niavety. I'm a lawyer and interpret rules and law for a living and I can tell you with absolute certainty there is no such thing as 100% clear cut rules and it is impossible to write anything with no grey areas--absolutel impossible and if there is any other lawyer here or even anyone with legal experience, the will agree with me. I can go find you 50 examples right now of technical violations of the rules and not one word was said about them. In fact, I told you that what prompted this thread is one member who twice today claimed a violation of rules and he was dead wrong--at least in my opinion. So how in the world can you claim the rules are clear cut with no grey areas when twice today someone completely misinterpreted them? :confused

 

[Fox Mulder]

well.. im about 100% with OJ on this one.. i mean.. all the emotion/arguing out of it, why is it wrong to tell a new person to the forum " oh hey you cant post that as per the rules" ? i mean yeah if your going to, be damn sure its a rule.. It just seems to me that, that would be the responsible/helpful thing.. but hey.. honestly. its V's and the staffs boards so if they dont want us to.. thats cool If i ever see something, i can just as easily ignore it and report it and not tell the person.. really its cool either way.[\b]

If you think there was a rule violation (and that's the crux of the issue) then report it--don't play moderator and make your own determination.

 

[Fox Mulder]

As an example; If I see someone posting porn links and tell them to delete them, then they are flat out wrong and I'm going to tell them. Another example; If I see two people who took a debate about abortion and started talking about flowers and kittens I sure as hell can tell them to get back on topic or they'll face the consequences when i report the bullshit cluttering the thread. If they want to argue with me about it, then the moderators are going to give them more shit for being even more wrong.

But its not your job to tell anyone what the rules are--its the moderator's job. All you are going to do by telling them yourself is piss somone else off (which is the point of this thread). And it is arrogant of you to believe that you can make a determination, for example, of what "porn" is when the US Supreme Court has struggled with it for decades. What you should do is report it to a moderator and let them deal with it. People are going to be far more willing to accept the judgment of a moderator when he/she is wrong then they will your judgment even if you're right. This is just basic human psychology, James--its not really debatable.

 

[Minor Axis]

Being accused by the author of this thread of "making every discussion into some sort of attack on me", you can understand why it's important that I tread carefully here and not be paranoid?

Philosophically, should everyone mind their own business? Absolutely! But there are two levels to take this discussion. The first level is purely philosophical, the second level is to examine why this thread was initiated. The second level requires specifics, specifics in the posts of our members to determine if the complaints leveled in this post specifically have merit. Btw, I've been a forum moderator too and calling posts to moderators' attention publicly is acceptable in the forums I've participated in. It's not doing the moderator's job because it's their decision to act or ignore.

For your consideration: Who could he be talking about I wonder? Who has asked the moderators to intervene? Does this have something to do with "name calling"? Or does this involve one member altering another's member's reply, and when the first member objects, the one who altered the post tells him it's none of his business when the first member quotes a separate comment from the second member that was directed at a third member and makes his own comment? (Confused? Feel free to PM me for clarification. ) Just who tells people "If you can't take the heat get our of the kitchen?" Who is making this "a mountain out of a mole hill". And who is the "Whine, whine, whiner"?

If anyone wants to define exactly what "minding one's own business" is in a member forum and thinks specifics are relevant I'm open to the discussion.

 

[TheOriginalJames]

No offense, but that's just plain niavety. I'm a lawyer and interpret rules and law for a living and I can tell you with absolute certainty there is no such thing as 100% clear cut rules and it is impossible to write anything with no grey areas--absolutel impossible and if there is any other lawyer here or even anyone with legal experience, the will agree with me. I can go find you 50 examples right now of technical violations of the rules and not one word was said about them. In fact, I told you that what prompted this thread is one member who twice today claimed a violation of rules and he was dead wrong--at least in my opinion. So how in the world can you claim the rules are clear cut with no grey areas when twice today someone completely misinterpreted them? :confused

You shouldn't be interpreting the rules. This isn't a court of law.This isn't a democracy. This is Veronicas' creation. If you have "grey areas" on HER rules, you need to start asking questions for clarification.

 

[NicAuf]

Come the fuck on people it's the fucking internet.....shit

 

[AUDRAA]

Come the fuck on people it's the fucking internet.....shit

:homo:

 

[TheOriginalJames]

But its not your job to tell anyone what the rules are--its the moderator's job. All you are going to do by telling them yourself is piss somone else off (which is the point of this thread). And it is arrogant of you to believe that you can make a determination, for example, of what "porn" is when the US Supreme Court has struggled with it for decades. What you should do is report it to a moderator and let them deal with it. People are going to be far more willing to accept the judgment of a moderator when he/she is wrong then they will your judgment even if you're right. This is just basic human psychology, James--its not really debatable.

I know what veronica determines as porn. Once again, this isn't about US law. This is about VERONICAS RULES. They are not open to interpretation.

 

[AUDRAA]

V loves porn she told me just not here lol

 

[NicAuf]

V loves porn she told me just not here lol

We need more porn on this forum.

 

[AUDRAA]

ha no we dont there are sites for that

 

[Keight]

well.. heres my opinion. One, if you put something up on a chat board.. you obviously are talking - or should consider yourself talking to everyone. Now, There is a group mentality that forms. The 'way' of the group needs to be learned by new members. Often these are unwritten rules. Normal members will steer new members or correct their own when these rules or limits are pushed and that is the way of all "pack" mentality situations. Like for instance, and i dont bring it up to be a dick, but i think this is a post that triggered a lot of these thoughts: Danas (joking or not) post to the kid about his birthday. I dont know Dana enough to make a judgement call on if that was a flame or a goof.. doesnt matter to me much.. i did think it a little over the top.. but hey.. a lot of stuff here is. Now irt the OP, i also dont think it was overly out of line when non mods/staff/admin stepped up and said WTF on that. thats an internal control and the members of a group will always do that..If nothing else to weed out those that dont really belong. No im not saying that certain people dont belong, but This forum is not for everyone. Say for instance someone who is overly offended by foul language. Many forums do not allow that (be it written or un written) this one does. My point is, the mods serve a clear role in enforcing the written rule, where the "mob" mentality will enforce the "norms" of the group. Thats the way it is pretty much anywere where people post freely.

If you get away from that.. then there are never going to be close ties, because people will not feel that they can post/be themselves or if this is the right place for them.

my .02

:homo:


Your Just Dirty cause no one is defending you on your lil rants Mulder :nod::ninja

 

[Fox Mulder]

:homo:


Your Just Dirty cause no one is defending you on your lil rants Mulder :nod::ninja

Mind your own business! :nod:

 

[skyblue]

I hate all of you equally so no worries there

:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown: