Did Jesus rejects O T God’s ways?

[Greatest I am]

This is a good point. Vicarious redemption is a failed attempt to dress up the barbaric practice of human sacrifice. It makes no difference whether the Aztecs or ancient Hebrews were doing it. It's immoral and pointless.

It is just the carrot the church needs to keep the $$$ flowing in.
Hypocrites trying to buy their way into heaven by doing the immoral thing. It would be funny if not so sad.

Regards
DL

 

[Diggin Deep]

Yet your God says exactly the opposite.
Ever wonder why?
And ever wonder why your thinking is completely opposed to his?

Well, there's one way to settle this, and that is, let's hear it from Yahweh himself. Today, brothers and sisters, we open the Good Book to Genesis chapter 3, verse 22:
22. And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
I think in 3:22 God spells it out loud and clear: yes, the snake had told the truth. Yes, in eating from that tree humans had become like God, by being able to tell good from evil.

I mean, hey, if you can't trust the LORD himself about it, who can you trust, eh?

Regards
DL

I said that God wanted his people back. He desired a relationship with his people despite our sinful nature.

For example: I tell my child that it is time for bed and he is not allowed to get out of bed and play with the new toy I got him. I tuck him in and say good night and close the door. Later I hear him upstairs playing with that toy, after I told him not to. Now my son is 3 and knows not what sin is. He just knows that Daddy said not to. Now I punish him and take his toys away for however long of a period I desire. Just because my son disobeyed me, does not mean that I do not love my son. It does not mean that I do not desire a relationship with my son. It does not mean that I would not forgive him for his actions. However, there are consequences for being disobedient. Yes I know it was tempting to have placed a toy that he has seen in the stores and wanted for awhile in a room with a 3 year old.

He told A & E not to eat from the that tree, but that they could eat from any other tree in the garden. And even though they fell to temptation, even though they disobeyed, he still desired a relationship with them, his children, his creation. We could debate whether it was wrong or not for God to have placed temptation in the world, but what parent wants their children to be as a robot. Parents want their children to love them and trust them because they want to, not because they have to. The only way that God could have a real relationship with His children was to let them sin (free will) and hope that they would still desire the same relationship with Him as He did with them.

So despite our sinful nature and willingness to disobey, God still gave us a way to have that relationship with Him...through Jesus Christ, because only His sacrifice could account for all humans. And because of this sacrifice, we have a choice to believe or not believe - to follow Him or not follow Him. And because of the His desire of a relationship with us and because of His sacrifice, we are able to seek forgiveness from our Father, repent for our sins and still have a relationship with Him. Just as my son desires to make me happy, apologize for his bad judgements and desires to have a relationship with his Daddy.

 

[Greatest I am]

I .

Notice, how you pathetically did not refute what I gave to show your lie and you just hypocritically went into preach mode that you know I will ignore.

Quite a dishonest way to be.
You have learned well from your pathetic God.
You exemplify the typical unthinking theist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjxZ6MrBl9E&feature=related

Regards
DL

 

[Diggin Deep]

It is just the carrot the church needs to keep the $$$ flowing in.
Hypocrites trying to buy their way into heaven by doing the immoral thing. It would be funny if not so sad.

Regards
DL

People don't always tithe because they feel they have to, but more often than not, because they want to. The money brought in by tithes goes to far more than just the church. Helping and rebuilding the community, the youth, and missions trips are just a few. In my opinion, there are far more people who tithe so that they can help spread the word of God than do it because they fear that they won't get to Heaven without doing so.

However, I do agree that it is sad that people only give to the church because they feel that it is necessary to get into Heaven. I don't feel that they are Hyporcrites, just misinformed.

 

[Diggin Deep]

Notice, how you pathetically did not refute what I gave to show your lie and you just hypocritically went into preach mode that you know I will ignore.

Quite a dishonest way to be.
You have learned well from your pathetic God.
You exemplify the typical unthinking theist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjxZ6MrBl9E&feature=related

Regards
DL

I must admit that you are good at twisting what people say Though you and I may not agree on religion, Christianity or God, I admire your devotion to your beliefs. I admire you knowledge and the time you invest into you beliefs. That being said, I'm not a hyporcrite and I'm not preaching at you. You portray God as a god of genocide, lies and hypocrocy. I portray him as a loving God who desires a relationship with his children. You use the Bible as a tool to show evidence of lies and mistrust and I use it as a tool to gain knowledge of my faith and of the God I serve and answers to the many questions I have.

One thing you'll hopefully understand about me is that I am open-minded and I engage with doubters. I pursue disconfirming information. I am friends with many people of many different beliefs. I surround myself with those people to help strengthen my own walk with God. Though I may not agree with everything they say or believe, I'm not going to condemn them for it. I find it necessary to be open-minded to other beliefs and admit that there are people who have more religious knowledge than I'll ever have.

You say that I exemplify the typical unthinking theist. I was once a non-believer and had border line atheistic and agnostic views. Much thought was put into my life to get to where I am today. Mainly due to the doubts that I have/had and the answers I found and am searching for.

I'm the first to admit that I have doubts about scripture, especially in the O.T. and how it corresponds with the N.T. I wrestle every day with God regarding certain things...such as how can a all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-loving God let the world suffer. Was Jesus who He said He was? How much of the future does God actually know? Doubt is a sign of faith, not a lack of it.

"A faith without some doubt is like a human body without any anti-bodies. People who blindly go through life, too busy or too indifferent to ask hard questions as to why they believe as they do will find themselves defenseless." Tim Keller

We can agree to disagree. I've not personally attacked you or your views. Give me some credit, I'm one of the few who have given you threads a second look and actually enjoy wrestling with you on the topic of God without condemning you to Hell for your beliefs. And I don't claim to have all of the answers.

 

[Greatest I am]

People don't always tithe because they feel they have to, but more often than not, because they want to. The money brought in by tithes goes to far more than just the church. Helping and rebuilding the community, the youth, and missions trips are just a few. In my opinion, there are far more people who tithe so that they can help spread the word of God than do it because they fear that they won't get to Heaven without doing so.

However, I do agree that it is sad that people only give to the church because they feel that it is necessary to get into Heaven. I don't feel that they are Hyporcrites, just misinformed.

One word should suffice here.

Indulgences.

Regards
DL

 

[purpledove]

One word should suffice here.

Indulgences.

Regards
DL

Just curious- indulgences and to add penances to your list is of Roman Catholic Religion . I think what Digging Deep is on about are of Christianity per se! Not Roman Catholic practices.

As I myself as a converted non- denominational Christian used to be a Roman Catholic. i don't agree with such practices to be saved. People are being misled by those practices. It's a personal relationship with him as it is a gift! A grace and not something that we do to be saved :ninja

 

[Greatest I am]

Just curious- indulgences and to add penances to your list is of Roman Catholic Religion . I think what Digging Deep is on about are of Christianity per se! Not Roman Catholic practices.

As I myself as a converted non- denominational Christian used to be a Roman Catholic. i don't agree with such practices to be saved. People are being misled by those practices. It's a personal relationship with him as it is a gift! A grace and not something that we do to be saved :ninja

Your personal relationship is with a book written by men.
That is why it is such an immoral works.

Would you like to live under it's laws?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-2_LqOS3uo

I did not think so, so why do you say you are Christian if it is meek and mild Jesus who you follow and not his genocidal O T side? You have rejected half of him.

Regards
DL

 

[Diggin Deep]

I know you are just sitting there waiting for a reply aren't you...LOL:nod:

 

[purpledove]

Your personal relationship is with a book written by men.
That is why it is such an immoral works.

I did not think so, so why do you say you are Christian if it is meek and mild Jesus who you follow and not his genocidal O T side? You have rejected half of him.

Regards
DL

That book you say has events and informations that had been proven and validated of it's truths by scientists, astrophysicists, archeologists. You surely will be able to see IF you open your eyes and search.

One example: Astrophysicist: Dr. Hugh Ross who was once an Atheist/Agnostic converted to Christianity after his long search and found the events etc in the Bible to be the truth. Why do you think the Bible is the most critiqued book of all times despite it's age? Bcoz of it's impact on people's lives and the scientific truths written even b4 it was proven by scientist a long time ago. It's not just a mere Book! :nod: Hence it's effect on you too

The many scientific evidences found to prove the Bible is true. Read and be amazed how through time, science is able to prove the Bible and God.....

Evidences on earth and the Universe don't lie

various topics: http://www.reasons.org/siteSearch/node/?keys=bible+evidence&x=0&y=0

Astronomical evidence of God of the Bible : http://www.reasons.org/astronomical-evidences-god-bible

Would you like to live under it's laws?

We don't live by it's laws we live by grace that's the gift we talk about. What you talk about are 'Religion's' misleading ideas. Not with Christianity. Christianity is NOT a RELIGION. It is faith, a relationship !!! We're aware that we are not saved through following rules. That's the belief of others.

 

[Greatest I am]

That book you say has events and informations that had been proven and validated of it's truths by scientists, astrophysicists, archeologists. You surely will be able to see IF you open your eyes and search.

One example: Astrophysicist: Dr. Hugh Ross who was once an Atheist/Agnostic converted to Christianity after his long search and found the events etc in the Bible to be the truth. Why do you think the Bible is the most critiqued book of all times despite it's age? Bcoz of it's impact on people's lives and the scientific truths written even b4 it was proven by scientist a long time ago. It's not just a mere Book! :nod: Hence it's effect on you too

The many scientific evidences found to prove the Bible is true. Read and be amazed how through time, science is able to prove the Bible and God.....

Evidences on earth and the Universe don't lie

various topics: http://www.reasons.org/siteSearch/node/?keys=bible+evidence&x=0&y=0

Astronomical evidence of God of the Bible : http://www.reasons.org/astronomical-evidences-god-bible



We don't live by it's laws we live by grace that's the gift we talk about. What you talk about are 'Religion's' misleading ideas. Not with Christianity. Christianity is NOT a RELIGION. It is faith, a relationship !!! We're aware that we are not saved through following rules. That's the belief of others.

Poor dear. Are you telling me that any of the miracles, fantasy and magic shown in the Bible are true?

Snakes can talk, staffs can turn into snakes and that your God would murder an entire world to save only 8 of his perfect creations?
And do you feel comfortable following a genocidal maniac?

Regards
DL

 

[purpledove]

Poor dear. Are you telling me that any of the miracles, fantasy and magic shown in the Bible are true?

Snakes can talk, staffs can turn into snakes and that your God would murder an entire world to save only 8 of his perfect creations?
And do you feel comfortable following a genocidal maniac?

Regards
DL

As I see, you're very closed minded to even see and read what was presented to you. You're like Dr Hugh Ross and other Atheists ( Lee Strobel- A Yale scholar- once an Atheist too ) who questioned everything about the Bible, just like you do. The only difference and KUDOS to them- is they were open minded and took the plunge to seek answers and not just mere Qns as you have Sir!

I know am just gonna be wasting my time here. I just wanna say, you're entitled to your own beliefs and I will respect that! Am hoping you'll be open minded soon & open your eyes to see the greater evidence.

I doubt it that you even looked at those Scientific evidences that I've presented. Hope some light would be shed on you soon Sir

 

[Greatest I am]

As I see, you're very closed minded to even see and read what was presented to you. You're like Dr Hugh Ross and other Atheists ( Lee Strobel- A Yale scholar- once an Atheist too ) who questioned everything about the Bible, just like you do. The only difference and KUDOS to them- is they were open minded and took the plunge to seek answers and not just mere Qns as you have Sir!

I know am just gonna be wasting my time here. I just wanna say, you're entitled to your own beliefs and I will respect that! Am hoping you'll be open minded soon & open your eyes to see the greater evidence.

I doubt it that you even looked at those Scientific evidences that I've presented. Hope some light would be shed on you soon Sir

Pot calling the kettle black.

Regards
DL

 

[Diggin Deep]

I'm still trying to figure you out. You seem to be disgusted by the O.T. God and laugh at those who would even consider accepting the gift He gave us in the N.T.

You consider yourself a Gnostic Christian. Gnostic Christians follow the writings known as "The Gnostic Gospels" which are also written by man, just as the Bible. As a Gnostic Christian, your style of faith is free, open and creative - a different way from the traditional approach of being a Christian. The gnostic style believes that seeking God is more important than finding God by a certain dogma or belief. Gnostics are seekers and believe that it is more important to seek God through knowledge than "just believe". The Gnostic faith is not what you believe about Christ, but your relationship with Him. Gnostic Christians are not fixated on the past, but trust the "living Christ". Gnostics believe in "trust" as opposed to "belief" and being made "whole" as opposed to "saved".

So I guess my question is...if you are truly a Gnostic Christian, why do you go out of your way to ridicule those who follow Christ, just because they do it differently than you? Now I know you don't believe in "blind belief", but your faith still believes in having a personal relationship with Christ and seeking God.

Are you truly seeking answers to the questions in your threads or are you only trying to rock the boat? Are you truly trying to understand why Christians or any other religions and beliefs, believe the way they do? Are you seeking to "win" an argument over whose belief / faith is right or wrong? Don't get me wrong...I enjoy your threads, because they help me grow and search deeper into scripture to find answers. I'm just having a hard time understanding what you actually believe. You claim Gnostic Chistianity, but on the other hand you raise your nose to those who believe in the Bible, God, and Christ.

Do you not realize that even while Christians believe in the Bible and enjoy going to church, it does not mean that we do not still have doubts, seek God, to know Him, to understand Him. But because we do it through scripture, we are wrong??? Do you not understand that just because we go to church, doesn't mean we agree with everything the church says or does. That we who believe may not always agree with the doctrine the churches mandate.

As I wrote in my post yesterday, "Getting back to the basics...", many people today practice Churhianity as opposed to Christianity. The Christian life has been degraded to legalism. Mainly because so many are bound by the doctrine and the laws and forget what they actually go to church for...to have a relationship with God. Jesus transcends all of that!

We can't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[Diggin Deep]

I know am just gonna be wasting my time here.\

You aren't wasting your time...remember that!

 

[purpledove]

You aren't wasting your time...remember that!

Yeah, I remember and will remember! :thumbup

Thanks

 

[Greatest I am]

Satan says, do the immoral thing and lay your responsibilities onto the scapegoat to be murdered, an innocent man, and be saved.
Quite the gift.
You would have me sell my soul and follow you to hell, if there actually was one. No thanks.

Gnostics do not read their own scriptures literally. They are there to stimulate thinking only.

I ridicule literalist and fundamental Christians and all of the Abraham faiths because that is what they earn with their foolish beliefs and I do what I can to kill that destructive dogma. It leads to child abuse as shown in these.

African witches and Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXriVI&feature=related

Jesus Camp 1of 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOqGhcwwE1s

If you wish to understand me, then dither out the right moral actions of the two women you see in this, vis a vis their church. What would you do?

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/11/08/minnesota.catholic.gay.marriage/index.html?eref=rss_latest&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_latest+%28RSS%3A+Most+Recent%29#

Any relationship with God starts in the mind and heart. Not in a church.
People go to church for many reasons but most are not there for God.

Any that promote literalism contribute to the carnage I show here.

Regards
DL

 

[Diggin Deep]

DL - I agree that the employees of the Catholic Church should have been suspended and let go. Sadly, I am unable to view the other attachments on this computer.

I understand your stance and even agree with you on some points or at least understand why you believe certain things that you do. I agree that a relationship with God starts in a person's mind and heart, not in church.

I feel that in today's world, a lot more people tend to only see and focus on the negatives of religion and church. People tend to focus on the Christians who have made bad judgements and call them hypocrits. But then again, that is all most people ever see, hear and read. Non-believers have a sterotype of Christians that because we have a relationship with God, we are to be "perfect" and that we act like we have all of the answers to life's problems.

I can assure you that not all Christians, Catholics, etc. agree with what their church does. I can assure you that more believers care more about their personal relationship with God than they do about their church affiliation. Why do think so many Christians have left their churches to form non-denominational churches that welcome everyone regardless of their belief? I can assure you that many Christians are more open-minded than you give them credit for. That many are able and willing to admit their flaws and mistakes. If we didn't make poor decisions, mistakes, commit sin then there would be no need for God.

I personally wrestle with the aspects of the O.T. Many questions that you brought up in your threads. However, even though I have doubts and questions about God, The Bible and church, that doesn't keep me from believing. It strengthens me and helps me understand what it is I believe. Ultimately, even though I have doubts and do not personally agree with everything God did in the O.T., I can't escape the fact that He offered Himself as a sacrifice to the world as a way for me to have a relationship with Him...to stop the need of destroying mankind and starting over and over again.

The only thing that comes to mind is, "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference." I can't begin to understand every aspect of God or The Bible, but that doesn't keep me from still desiring a closer walk with God or a deeper understanding of His Word.

 

[Greatest I am]

DL - I agree that the employees of the Catholic Church should have been suspended and let go. Sadly, I am unable to view the other attachments on this computer.

I understand your stance and even agree with you on some points or at least understand why you believe certain things that you do. I agree that a relationship with God starts in a person's mind and heart, not in church.

I feel that in today's world, a lot more people tend to only see and focus on the negatives of religion and church. People tend to focus on the Christians who have made bad judgements and call them hypocrits. But then again, that is all most people ever see, hear and read. Non-believers have a sterotype of Christians that because we have a relationship with God, we are to be "perfect" and that we act like we have all of the answers to life's problems.

I can assure you that not all Christians, Catholics, etc. agree with what their church does. I can assure you that more believers care more about their personal relationship with God than they do about their church affiliation. Why do think so many Christians have left their churches to form non-denominational churches that welcome everyone regardless of their belief? I can assure you that many Christians are more open-minded than you give them credit for. That many are able and willing to admit their flaws and mistakes. If we didn't make poor decisions, mistakes, commit sin then there would be no need for God.

I personally wrestle with the aspects of the O.T. Many questions that you brought up in your threads. However, even though I have doubts and questions about God, The Bible and church, that doesn't keep me from believing. It strengthens me and helps me understand what it is I believe. Ultimately, even though I have doubts and do not personally agree with everything God did in the O.T., I can't escape the fact that He offered Himself as a sacrifice to the world as a way for me to have a relationship with Him...to stop the need of destroying mankind and starting over and over again.

The only thing that comes to mind is, "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference." I can't begin to understand every aspect of God or The Bible, but that doesn't keep me from still desiring a closer walk with God or a deeper understanding of His Word.

Then if you want to know him deeper, read Mein Kampf or anything written by Stalin and other genocidal maniacs.

Be comfy with your walk with your genocidal maniac.

We should all follow such Gods.

Regards
DL