Debate time: Global Warming

[Goat Whisperer]

I feel like having a fun little debate on global warming, my position would obviously be 'Global warming is not only happening, but humans are a main cause.' Any takers to oppose me? Don't tell me your a scared!

 

[IntruderLS1]

It's a scam.

http://www.offtopicz.net/24307-science-fair-participant-intruderls1.html

 

[Goat Whisperer]

I can come up with several incorrect findings and rebuttals in your debate.

 

[Panic]

I think some of it is manmade and some of it natural.

Do you like my rebuttal? What a debater I am.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

A big one, in greenhouse gas section, is that we do contribute the most Co2 because yes, nature releases the most, but then it also takes the most back in through things like plankton and trees, which that chart obviously ignored. I'm going to talk in Gt (giga-tons) and my numbers are from NASA and are rounded so it won't add up. First off, humans emit 7 Gt, Oceans emit 90 Gt, trees emit 120 Gt, and volcanoes only emit .15. Seems like we must not have any effect, but guess what was 'forgotten'? Oh yeah, what all those things actually take-in!

Oceans might emit 90 GT but they also take in 92 GT, so they actually take in 2 GT of carbon a year. Trees emit 120 GT but take-in 121 GT, so they actually take-in 1 GT a year. And volcanoes don't actually do anything much at all except for releasing .15. So humans are the main source of carbon emissions compared to nature. Where as the net effect of humans is still 7 Giga-tons a year. Now as I said the numbers won't add up perfectly as they are rounded. Humans emmit 7 GT, 2 are taken in by the ocean, 2 go somewhere else (we don't know where they are going), and 3 GT go into the atmosphere a year.

Yes, water makes up more then the green house effect but, since we are adding such a large amount of carbon in such a short period of time carbon is the greenhouse gas we worry about. Its taken fossil fuels (which are made out of carbon originally) about 300 million years (about .2 GT year) of the carbon building up underground to create those fossil fuels. Then all of it being put back up in the air in less then 200. Pretty significant if you ask me.

Hmm, some how I have disproved most of your evidence in that section, maybe it isn't a black and white 'scam' after-all? Do you want me to go through the rest of your report? Don't believe all the charts and movies you see, please go get the numbers on your own and check your statements before you post them; because if you, even accidentally, use incorrect evidence you might convince someone of something that isn't true; with lies. And then they spread those lies around, and the people they told tell people and they tell people... and suddenly hundreds of people have warped opinions because of your incorrect data.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

I think some of it is manmade and some of it natural.

Do you like my rebuttal? What a debater I am.

I wasn't finished. Did you like mine?

 

[IntruderLS1]

I wasn't finished. Did you like mine?

Let's pretend like I accept 100% of your argument as gospel. I don't, but let's pretend. You have yet to scratch the surface of the arguments against.

Why does the hottest decade on record pre-date WWII, and the massive build up of human activity since?

How can you look at the following data and expect me to take the argument seriously that this is our doing?

 

[thatguyjeff]

If man made greenhouse gasses are the cause, then why is there not a corollary between the increase in gasses released in the last 10 years and the global tempature average over the last 10 years?

 

[Minor Axis]

Only people who don't want to have to deal with the consequences of "possible" global warming, stick their heads in the sand and spout "impossible", "sham". It's an issue worth taking seriously. Not that it proves anything, but the last 100 years have been the hottest in recorded history and it started rising during the industrial age. So that does not prove anything in the big picture, but it should be a matter for serious investigation.

If man made greenhouse gasses are the cause, then why is there not a corollary between the increase in gasses released in the last 10 years and the global tempature average over the last 10 years?

Actually if you go back 600k years you'll see a direct corollary between Co2 and Temp. I won't judge what that means.

 

[thatguyjeff]

Actually if you go back 600k years you'll see a direct corollary between Co2 and Temp. I won't judge what that means.

Even if it were possible (with a reasonable degree of accuracy) to determine the average global temps from more than even a few hundred years ago (let alone several hundred thousand), let's say you're correct.

But given that the amount of man made greenhouse gas emissions over the past 10 years has increased at an exponentially greater rate than at any time in recorded history, and if those greenhouse gasses were the direct/primary cause of the increase in global average temperature, then we should see an equivalent/similar increase in global average temps over the past 10 years.

But, global average temperatures have decreased in recent years. How can that be explained if the greenhouse gas theory is correct?

And regarding your wiki image on ice-core data, according to this article, The ice-core man,
Ice core data is false.

 

[Wookiegirl]

Frankly, I think it's very self absorbed of the human race to think we can harm something as magnificent as this planet. I think that global warming is a farce.

I have absolutely no facts to back this. I just know what I know is my opinion. Feel free to have your own.

 

[dt3]

Here's my favorite point that I never hear raised. In the early 1990's, the USSR collapsed. Before that, they had hundreds of weather monitoring stations throughout the country, most of them in Siberia. Due to the resulting cash flow problem, they shut down those stations in one of the coldest regions on Earth. Giuess what happened? The average temperature soared!

Since 1990, world-wide, the number of weather stations has been cut over 50%. How does that affect the quality of new data? I would guess significantly.

Read page 5, then see the chart on page 6:
http://www.uoguelph.ca/~rmckitri/research/econ-persp.pdf

This poses a problem for users of the data. Someone has to come up with an algorithm for deciding how much of the change in average temperature post-1990 is due to an actual change in the climate and how much is due to the change in the sample.

Now am I saying it doesn't exist? No. I'm saying I haven't seen enough proof that it's happening, much less that it's humankind's fault.

 

[dt3]

And of course my favorite question about all of this is: Let's say global warming does exist. Let's say it's man-made. How do we know we aren't putting off the next big ice age?

:humm:

 

[Wookiegirl]

And of course my favorite question about all of this is: Let's say global warming does exist. Let's say it's man-made. How do we know we aren't putting off the next big ice age?

:humm:

personally i'm looking forward to it.
i want denis leary to be my pet saber tooth tiger

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

I think what gets easily confused....

Is destruction of the atmosphere, which has a lot of human contribution..and the earth warming and cooling like it has normally since recorded time.

 

[Tim]

And of course my favorite question about all of this is: Let's say global warming does exist. Let's say it's man-made. How do we know we aren't putting off the next big ice age?

:humm:

By warming the globe we melt the ice caps which dilutes the salinity of the ocean with the fresh water from the ice caps which shuts down the "oceanic conveyor" of currents which will bring on the next ice age.

Global warming = next ice age.

That's what scares me.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

By warming the globe we melt the ice caps which dilutes the salinity of the ocean with the fresh water from the ice caps which shuts down the "oceanic conveyor" of currents which will bring on the next ice age.

Global warming = next ice age.

That's what scares me.

That's something we may not be able to stop

 

[dt3]

By warming the globe we melt the ice caps which dilutes the salinity of the ocean with the fresh water from the ice caps which shuts down the "oceanic conveyor" of currents which will bring on the next ice age.

Global warming = next ice age.

That's what scares me.

But the globe warmed long before we were here. So to say "we" melt the ice caps is a stretch I'm not willing to make given the evidence. Heck, what happened after the last big ice age that suddenly turned the planet into a thriving paradise again? Whatever it was had to have been natural since we obviously didn't do it. There's just too many questions without answers for me to jump on the "we did it" train.

 

[Minor Axis]

But, global average temperatures have decreased in recent years. How can that be explained if the greenhouse gas theory is correct?

Last I heard they were the 10 hottest years recorded. And I think you have to look longer than a 10 year period. A longer view is required as shown in that chart I linked.

 

[thatguyjeff]

Last I heard they were the 10 hottest years recorded. And I think you have to look longer than a 10 year period. A longer view is required as shown in that chart I linked.

Nope. 5 of the hottest (globally) were before WW2, with #1 being 1934.