Dear Congressman Shelby...

[Strauss]

Over $10 trillion and counting. U.S. National Debt Clock

"The money will be borrowed" from whom?? Who will own us?

You said deficit not debt. Try reading here:Government - Frequently Asked Questions about the Public Debt

There is a hugh difference between deficit and debt:

What is the difference between the debt and the deficit?

The deficit is the fiscal year difference between what the United States Government (Government) takes in from taxes and other revenues, called receipts, and the amount of money the Government spends, called outlays. The items included in the deficit are considered either on-budget or off-budget.
You can think of the total debt as accumulated deficits plus accumulated off-budget surpluses. The on-budget deficits require the U.S. Treasury to borrow money to raise cash needed to keep the Government operating. We borrow the money by selling securities like Treasury bills, notes, bonds and savings bonds to the public.
The Treasury securities issued to the public and to the Government Trust Funds (Intragovernmental Holdings) then become part of the total debt. For information about the deficit, visit the Financial Management Service web site to view the Monthly Treasury Statement of Receipts and Outlays of the United States Government (MTS).

Own us? An odd thought. Does you auto lender own you? Or your mortgage company? Or your credit card company? If you think so you got better problems then what is being discussed here.

 

[Tim]

If you cannot repay your auto loan, they take your car. If you cannot repay the treasury bills, what do they take?

 

[Accountable]

You said deficit not debt. Try reading here:Government - Frequently Asked Questions about the Public Debt

There is a hugh difference between deficit and debt:


Own us? An odd thought. Does you auto lender own you? Or your mortgage company? Or your credit card company? If you think so you got better problems then what is being discussed here.

Point taken about the deficit.

The auto lender owns the car. The mortgage company owns the house. The credit card company ... hell, I never understood credit cards. I use one daily & pay it off every month. I am debt free because I choose to be. Back on point - the lender owns the collateral; if you doubt that, stop paying the bill and find out who ends up with the property. The gov't is borrowing billions upon billions. The debt's got to be paid. Until that happens, the lender owns us. I want to know who that is.

 

[Strauss]

If you cannot repay your auto loan, they take your car. If you cannot repay the treasury bills, what do they take?

Nothing that's the point.

 

[Strauss]

Point taken about the deficit.

The auto lender owns the car. The mortgage company owns the house. The credit card company ... hell, I never understood credit cards. I use one daily & pay it off every month. I am debt free because I choose to be. Back on point - the lender owns the collateral; if you doubt that, stop paying the bill and find out who ends up with the property. The gov't is borrowing billions upon billions. The debt's got to be paid. Until that happens, the lender owns us. I want to know who that is.

The auto lender does not own the car nor does the mortgage company own the house. They have liens placed against each to establish their right to payment and, in the event of default, the right o sell. They do not own the car or the house.

Let me tell you about an old saying: Owe a bank a hundred dollars its your creditor; owe the bank a 100 million dollars and its your partner.

 

[Accountable]

The auto lender does not own the car nor does the mortgage company own the house. They have liens placed against each to establish their right to payment and, in the event of default, the right o sell. They do not own the car or the house.

Let me tell you about an old saying: Owe a bank a hundred dollars its your creditor; owe the bank a 100 million dollars and its your partner.

Fine. Semantics. Who's our "partners"?

 

[SgtSpike]

In a world where banks hemorrhaged trillions in a high-priced gamble called credit derivative swaps that you failed to regulate, how on earth do we need to be punished? In a bailout era where you shoveled billions, with no demands, to banks and financial firms — who created the problem in the first place — why do need to be schooled on how to run a business?

I love how the automakers are now blaming their downfall on the government. As if they couldn't have done anything about their own business.

Last time I checked, it wasn't the government's responsibility to ensure businesses didn't fail.

Regarding chapt 11 and suppliers, I doubt very many of their suppliers would fail, if any. There's still going to be cars being built. There's still going to be cars that need servicing. Just because they'd go through some restructuring doesn't mean they wouldn't still need their suppliers!

EDIT: One thing I do agree with them on though, is the complaints about the financial bailout. That never should have happened. And now, just like I said would happen, all sorts of other companies want some free loans too. While you're at it, I could sure use an interest-free bailout on my home, Mr. President.

 

[Alien Allen]

Spike the automakers have said they made mistakes. They are not saying the govt is totally to blame but govt has done things that caused bigger problems.

 

[Strauss]

Fine. Semantics. Who's our "partners"?

Its much more than semantics but I'm not going to beat the dead horse. Who do you think our biggest partner is? If you thought China you'd be wrong......its Japan. What foreign country owns the most real estate and companies in the US? If you thought China or Japan, you'd be wrong.................its England.

 

[Alien Allen]

anybody watch 60 minutes tonite

some are claiming we are half way there on home foreclosures.

guess that massive loan to bail out fucking wall street is not gonna be enough.

so what the fuck why not make it worse and let the auto companies take up the ass by congress and let their suppliers and everybody else it effects bend over while it counts

what a friggin mad country we live in.

 

[Accountable]

I guess they thought of the finance industry as the economy's fuel tank. Fill it up with money and everything should continue running fine. When that didn't happen they just started throwing spitballs hoping something would stick. Hopefully we'll never let any company get "too big to fail" ever again.

 

[Accountable]

Its much more than semantics but I'm not going to beat the dead horse. Who do you think our biggest partner is? If you thought China you'd be wrong......its Japan. What foreign country owns the most real estate and companies in the US? If you thought China or Japan, you'd be wrong.................its England.

I'd rather live in a sovreign country than an international partnership, no matter how friendly the partners are.

 

[SgtSpike]

Spike the automakers have said they made mistakes. They are not saying the govt is totally to blame but govt has done things that caused bigger problems.

I know. Everyone else makes mistakes and they fail. Why do the automakers get special treatment?

 

[Alien Allen]

I know. Everyone else makes mistakes and they fail. Why do the automakers get special treatment?

Well it depends upon whether you think it is a bailout or a loan. Everybody is treating it as a bailout when it is a loan. So that means those against are assuming the companies will fold in the end. might be true for Chrysler but not gonna happen with Ford and should not happen to GM.

What the question should be is why did the banks bet special treatment. The Big 3 have a gun being held to their head while the banks got the money with no strings attached or questions asked.

The reason they need to get the money is that it will have a massive ripple effect on millions of workers if they do not get the loan. This is not about the fat cats getting more money to continue a life style. It is about trying to preserve jobs.

 

[Tim]

I find it funny that the Canadian, French, German, Swedish and Japanese governments are all putting together bailout packages for their auto manufacturers in this economic meltdown while we play politics here in the states. It's shameful at the least.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Senator Shelby wasn't the only thing wrong with the failure....

I mean he's an easy target but let's not forget about the union, who at the request of the panel, was asked if they would submit an approval to look into potential cost cutback strategies up to and including worker cutbacks and salary reductions.

They simply said no, so basically once again, the union would rather save face then save jobs.

Here's how I see it, the unions in regards to UAW, are corrupt as well, you think the union brass doesn't benefit at the expense of the workers?

 

[Tim]

Senator Shelby wasn't the only thing wrong with the failure....

I mean he's an easy target but let's not forget about the union, who at the request of the panel, was asked if they would submit an approval to look into potential cost cutback strategies up to and including worker cutbacks and salary reductions.

They simply said no, so basically once again, the union would rather save face then save jobs.

Here's how I see it, the unions in regards to UAW, are corrupt as well, you think the union brass doesn't benefit at the expense of the workers?

Actually the UAW did concede to the demands. They gave everything that was asked except one thing, an hard date (accelerated) on pay cuts. They already agreed on cutting back on hourly wage, but it hasn't gone into effect yet. They reached a tentative agreement with Senator Corker by his Republican colleagues rejected it.
Every other country is helping their auto manufacturers in this economic downturn, except us. This is political posturing, nothing more. Do you really think that these senate republicans are worried about a measly $14billion after throwing wheelbarrows of money at the financial institutions?

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Actually the UAW did concede to the demands. They gave everything that was asked except one thing, an hard date (accelerated) on pay cuts. They already agreed on cutting back on hourly wage, but it hasn't gone into effect yet. They reached a tentative agreement with Senator Corker by his Republican colleagues rejected it.
Every other country is helping their auto manufacturers in this economic downturn, except us. This is political posturing, nothing more. Do you really think that these senate republicans are worried about a measly $14billion after throwing wheelbarrows of money at the financial institutions?

I don't agree with any bailout philosophy, if they cannot manage money well enough to know that there will be hard times, how are they supposed to make sure we get our money back?

Not letting them file bankruptcy is another scare tactic.

Airlines did it......People still fly...

I don't get it

 

[Tim]

I don't agree with any bailout philosophy, if they cannot manage money well enough to know that there will be hard times, how are they supposed to make sure we get our money back?

Not letting them file bankruptcy is another scare tactic.

Airlines did it......People still fly...

I don't get it

But it's not a bail-out, it's a loan. Bail-out was what we did to the financial industry. Why didn't we tell them to go pound sand and declare bankruptcy?

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

But it's not a bail-out, it's a loan. Bail-out was what we did to the financial industry. Why didn't we tell them to go pound sand and declare bankruptcy?

It's a bail out....They are just putting a different name on it...

Technically anytime you give someone money with a deal to pay it back..It's a loan, but the scare tactics are part of the "bail out" terminology.

If it were up to me, I would have told them all to get fucked:eek

The way that all large corporations do business needs to be evaluated, hell Tim oil went from an all time record peak of over $140bbl, then plummeted to below 30.....

You don't see oil companies running for the hill to ask for money, our company still has a multi-billion dollar line of credit with its banks:dunno


Since the 80's oil companies state side have scrutinized every dollar, we still have fat just not near as much.

Maybe a good run through the spin cycle is what some of these companies need.