Deaf Man Leaves Store and Sets Off Alarm, Security Chokes Him Out

[darkangel]

Probably out of shape and his blood pressure was up, the guy slid to the side and got out of the choke easily so it was not a tight choke. After that it was a headlock. There was nothing there that I saw that I would not do when I am rough housing with my nephew. The guy will suffer zero physical damage from a choke like that except it maybe hard to swallow food for a day or two. The tackling someone from behind is excessive, a blood choke? nope,

What part of the guards not giving him the opportunity to show his receipts dont you get? It's not going to be based as much on what kind of damn choke hold he had on him its going to be that they didnt follow proper proceedure!

 

[itsmeJonB]

Really? Do you know if the deaf guys swung their bags at the security guards when they were first approached? Do you know how many times a security guard approaches someone and they pretend to be deaf. Hell, I did that myself when I was a youngin to try to get out of shit. Not saying that the situation isn't fucked up, but if the guys were guilty would you look at the vid in a different way?

They didn't beat the shit out these guys, he held him down with a poorly executed choke. These guards may deserve to lose their jobs, but I would like to see how this whole thing started before I mess with someone's livelihood.

I have worked security in California before, and they are clearly loss prevention officers. They dont have any right to detain anyone with excessive force, so you can stop your argument, I know the law

 

[darkangel]

I have worked security in California before, and they are clearly loss prevention officers. They dont have any right to detain anyone with excessive force, so you can stop your argument, I know the law

Thank you dex! Repped!

 

[SammyStephens]

What part of the guards not giving him the opportunity to show his receipts dont you get? It's not going to be based as much on what kind of damn choke hold he had on him its going to be that they didnt follow proper proceedure!

I have worked security in California before, and they are clearly loss prevention officers. They dont have any right to detain anyone with excessive force, so you can stop your argument, I know the law

Well numnuts, you obvioly did not read this post I made that followed after finding about the guy being initially tackled

this one, it's on the previous page


Well, that is entirely different, if that's the case, I hope the deaf guys get a big freaking stack of cash and the guards need to start getting their resumes ready and possibly serve a lil time. Cause that is assault. No attempt to even try to talk and get the attention? Yeah, fuck these security guards, tackling someone as your initial contact is not procedure anywhere. On the bright side, he'll have pleanty of time to learn how to do that guilloitine choke properly


Secondly, they are not loss prevention, they are security, and by law do have the right to apprehend and hold suspects for a reasonable time using reasonable force. It's part of tort law, just studied in in a law class I took not 4 months ago. Who decides whether it is excessive is the jury, not me and not you.

How are you people unable to differentiate this situation and a different question that was brought up? The question was not whether these two security guards were in the right, clearly they weren't when I saw the additional information of the guy getting tackled The second question (The one you people can not differentiate from this case and have chosen to ignorantly attack me over) was is a blood choke excessive that was asked by Zorak. I say no being someone that trains on a weekly basis on doing such things and explained why. That is not saying these guys did not use excessive force, but that blood chokes in my mind are not excessive. Or are you people too worked up for objective thought and analysis?

 

[Ryder]

Terribly sickening.

 

[SammyStephens]

And here is california law, wich looks to be fairly universal in most states, not even sure where this situation took place

http://www.crimedoctor.com/shoplifting2.htm


it is legal to apprehend someone and there are procedures for approach, so you're wrong dex. these guys clearly did not follow the procedures.

If you would stop for two secounds and READ and use a smidgen of thought you would realize at no point have I defended these security guards, but at the beginning wanted to know the whole story. I find people quick to judge without knowing all the facts much more dangerous then a choke hold.

 

[darkangel]

What part of the guards not giving him the opportunity to show his receipts dont you get? It's not going to be based as much on what kind of damn choke hold he had on him its going to be that they didnt follow proper proceedure!

And did you not read this?

That is not saying these guys did not use excessive force, but that blood chokes in my mind are not excessive. Or are you people too worked up for objective thought and analysis?

And are you an expert on the Law and on what is considered excessive force and what is not? Cuz I'd like to see your degree if you are...You have only stated your opinion based on being choked for whatever reasons you have to enjoy that type of thing...

 

[SammyStephens]

And did you not read this?


And are you an expert on the Law and on what is considered excessive force and what is not? Cuz I'd like to see your degree if you are...You have only stated your opinion based on being choked for whatever reasons you have to enjoy that type of thing...

And when I found out that they had not done that I agreed with the position that they were in the wrong. I am not defending these guys, I did want more information before I sold these guys down the road. The video did not show that portion, and to have an objective and informed opinion on the matter I needed to find that out first. Since I found out that they had not give him an opportunity to show receipts I have been in full agreement. How the hell have you missed that?

The second part, yes it is my opinion, And legally the only opinion that matters whether a blood choke is excessive force is up to a jury. I posted a link to the law that shows the procedures for retail stores for apprehension of shop lifters. The only disagreement we have is whether a blood choke, something you are not familiar with is excessive force. I argue that it isn't due to the fact it does no long lasting damage to the person being choked and is not life threatening. It merely cuts the blood circulation to the head and makes the person pass out, As a practitioner in martial arts, I know about this and know in a court it can be argued that a blood choke is a pretty humane way to apprehend someone. Much better then thumping on someone or doing a joint submission. You are not separating this case and other cases involving apprehension.

What if in a scenario where someone is being apprehended was resisting and was guilty? I'd rather be choked the tassered or even tackled on pavement (both I view as far more excessive then a blood choke) . So as oppinions matter in cases involving blood chokes I would say I am more qualified then anyone here to argue whether it is excessive or not. There is no kind or powederpuff way to apprehend someone resisting and would like actual responsible security personnel (not the schmucks in this vid) to have the tools to adequately do their jobs.

 

[darkangel]

The only disagreement we have is whether a blood choke, something you are not familiar with is excessive force.

And how do you know that I am not familiar with what a blood choke is? Did you know that I hold a Brown Belt in Karate? And have studied similar forms of self defense?

 

[SammyStephens]

And how do you know that I am not familiar with what a blood choke is? Did you know that I hold a Brown Belt in Karate? And have studied similar forms of self defense?

Cool, what style do you train? . I never trained in any form karate so I am not familiar if they do chokes at all to be honest, just know it is more focused on stand up and weapons training. I do know I like allot of what kyoshukin has brought to MMA, the Machida style of counter punching really translates well. I have never trained in any weapon based martial art, more Muai thai, BJJ, Judo and wrestling. So if you pick up a sword, don't be suprised if I run in the opposite direction

 

[darkangel]

I studied 2 styles Kokondo which is balanced hard & soft; balanced linear & circular. Kata of 40+, including weapons & kihon kata and Gosoku-ryu which is 50 percent hard, 50 percent soft techniques. Kata of 46 including weapons kata...:thumbup

 

[SammyStephens]

I studied 2 styles Kokondo which is balanced hard & soft; balanced linear & circular. Kata of 40+, including weapons & kihon kata and Gosoku-ryu which is 50 percent hard, 50 percent soft techniques. Kata of 46 including weapons kata...:thumbup

Right on, I have trained with a few guys with Karate and Taekwondo back grounds, their punches have always seemed a lil awkward and hard to time and their kicks suck, and by suck I mean hurt when they land lol

Maybe one day when I get old and slow I will do some weapons training lol

 

[darkangel]

Maybe one day when I get old and slow I will do some weapons training lol

Weapons training is fun...

 

[SammyStephens]

Weapons training is fun...

All of it's fun IMO, but I am more focused on jits, I don't compete MMA anymore but still do grappling tournaments so my focus is there. I also need to keep my kick boxing up. Just don't have the time between that, trying to get my business going and school

 

[darkangel]

All of it's fun IMO

It is all fun. I studied back in the 80's but I am older now and I don't work out anymore..

 

[SammyStephens]

It is all fun. I studied back in the 80's but I am older now and I don't work out anymore..

Well, I am 33, and I can still woop some ass, just the difference is I can woop some guys ass on the mat, but the next day he's spry and chipper and I look like I need a walker lol. And my other hobby is making beer, so it's nice to have a hobby that keeps the beer gut in check lol

 

[darkangel]

Well, I am 33, and I can still woop some ass, just the difference is I can woop some guys ass on the mat, but the next day he's spry and chipper and I look like I need a walker lol. And my other hobby is making beer, so it's nice to have a hobby that keeps the beer gut in check lol

Well I'm older than you and out of shape but I'm sure that I could give people a run for their money...

 

[SammyStephens]

Well I'm older than you and out of shape but I'm sure that I could give people a run for their money...

Attah girl :thumbup :cool

 

[darkangel]

Attah girl :thumbup :cool

Thanks!

 

[retro]

If someone resisted, yeah, a blood choke is perfectly acceptable and effective way of subduing someone. All it does is make someone pass out. It's no big deal, I get choked tons of times a week, I know the difference. The person being choked might not know the difference, but if they are resisting, they are really in no harm by the choke itself. An air choke is a different story for the record.

Rent a cops have no right to subdue someone in that manner. You can be detained, but not choked... it's criminal battery.