Conspiracy Theories

[Margene]

Reading the FDR thread and of course with the "birther" movement still in the news, it got me to thinking.

Can any conspriacy theory ever be put to rest?

Dealing with the more current issue of Obama's birth certificate, the preponderance of evidence shows he was indeed born in Hawaii. There are birth announcements in the papers of the day. The state of Hawaii has certified it and probably more than once in Obama's lifetime as he certainly had more than one passport issued. The state department issued a passport based on that birth certificate long before he ever ran for office.

Yet still there is this brouhaha over it.

So I want to know, despite the most concrete evidence, can any theory ever be laid to rest?

I don't want this to dissolve into nastiness, but realize any answer would have to address arguments specific to any theory. Can we play nice?

 

[Lord Stanley]

people beleive what they want to believe, despite evidence

the theory will always exist in the minds of his detractors

 

[dt3]

I've never heard of one dying :dunno

 

[Margene]

people beleive what they want to believe, despite evidence

the theory will always exist in the minds of his detractors

I've never heard of one dying :dunno

I agree with both of you and I guess I should have had a follow up question or two in the OP.

If we agree they can't be put to rest, is it worth it to argue against them? Can any benefit be gained or is it best to let them sit without attention?

Oh and as I'm thinking of the various conspiracy theories out there, I notice, most seem to be centered around politics/government. FDR and Pearl Harbor. JFK's assasination. The alien landing at Roswell, NM. Why is that? Is it related to power?

 

[dt3]

I agree with both of you and I guess I should have had a follow up question or two in the OP.

If we agree they can't be put to rest, is it worth it to argue against them? Can any benefit be gained or is it best to let them sit without attention?

Oh and as I'm thinking of the various conspiracy theories out there, I notice, most seem to be centered around politics/government. FDR and Pearl Harbor. JFK's assasination. The alien landing at Roswell, NM. Why is that? Is it related to power?

I think, especially in Americans, there's an inherent mistrust of government. It's easy to understand considering the government is supposed to act in our best interest, and they routinely don't. I don't think you can find anyone anywhere today that has 100% trust in any government.

To answer your first questions, I think it's always best to discuss rationally as opposed to arguing. Arguing back and forth seldom accomplishes anything. Like most things, people have already made up their minds one way or another and it won't change, but it's always interesting to be exposed to new ideas that you may not have considered before.

 

[Margene]

I think, especially in Americans, there's an inherent mistrust of government. It's easy to understand considering the government is supposed to act in our best interest, and they routinely don't. I don't think you can find anyone anywhere today that has 100% trust in any government.

To answer your first questions, I think it's always best to discuss rationally as opposed to arguing. Arguing back and forth seldom accomplishes anything. Like most things, people have already made up their minds one way or another and it won't change, but it's always interesting to be exposed to new ideas that you may not have considered before.

I agree, Americans don't trust government and that is likely another "gift" from the Pilgrims being as they were essentially kicked out of England. However, I think there is a healthy level of skepticism we must maintain, and then that which we see in conspiracy theorists who seem to be obsessed with the idea that the government is out to get them.

I used the word argument but discussion is the better word. I think discussion is always useful, but in arguing with some "dyed-in-the-wool" conspiracy nuts, I've been attacked personally, hence my question of it's value on this specific topic.

 

[Lord Stanley]

I agree, Americans don't trust government and that is likely another "gift" from the Pilgrims being as they were essentially kicked out of England. However, I think there is a healthy level of skepticism we must maintain, and then that which we see in conspiracy theorists who seem to be obsessed with the idea that the government is out to get them.

I used the word argument but discussion is the better word. I think discussion is always useful, but in arguing with some "dyed-in-the-wool" conspiracy nuts, I've been attacked personally, hence my question of it's value on this specific topic.

i guess with some measure of freedom of speech the theorists will always find a way to voice their ideas, most of them are very entertaining

 

[darkcgi]

if it is true or not it doesnt change anything now
this country is based on greed and that will never change

 

[Margene]

i guess with some measure of freedom of speech the theorists will always find a way to voice their ideas, most of them are very entertaining

Oh, I certainly don't want to silence them. Let them speak, there is no harm in that.

if it is true or not it doesnt change anything now
this country is based on greed and that will never change

I don't think it was ever based on anything else but greed. The Europeans were seeking easier trade routes, cities of gold etc...

It's the same as it ever was.

 

[Minor Axis]

Oh and as I'm thinking of the various conspiracy theories out there, I notice, most seem to be centered around politics/government. FDR and Pearl Harbor. JFK's assasination. The alien landing at Roswell, NM. Why is that? Is it related to power?

You forgot, the Clintons had Vince Foster killed...

The people who are going after Obama's birth certificate are conservative (partisan) who are looking to strike down his agenda and/or are raciest nincompoops who can't believe this country would actually have the nerve to elect a black man. Certain news sources feed them this garbage and they lap it up.

 

[MoonOwl]

The biggest conspiracy theory is that there are no conspiracies.

No one should take anything our government says at face value. Period. Especially when they label you 'unpatriotic' for wondering if they're up to something.

That is all

 

[Margene]

You forgot, the Clintons had Vince Foster killed...

The people who are going after Obama's birth certificate are conservative (partisan) who are looking to strike down his agenda and/or are raciest nincompoops who can't believe this country would actually have the nerve to elect a black man. Certain news sources feed them this garbage and they lap it up.

I forgot about Vince Foster! GEEEEEZ!! :willy_nilly:

I hear ya. That highly focused realm of media is damaging the country with this crud.

The biggest conspiracy theory is that there are no conspiracies.

No one should take anything our government says at face value. Period. Especially when they label you 'unpatriotic' for wondering if they're up to something.

That is all

I heartily agree moonie! That was the most pernicious tactic they used on us for 8 years. :thumbup

 

[MoonOwl]

I heartily agree moonie! That was the most pernicious tactic they used on us for 8 years. :thumbup

Worked like a charm didn't it? :mad

 

[Margene]

Worked like a charm didn't it? :mad

Sure did and to our great regret as we are now and will be living with the crud they got away with becasue they cowed us and media. :mad

 

[MoonOwl]

Sure did and to our great regret as we are now and will be living with the crud they got away with becasue they cowed us and media. :mad

Well, the media is a government sponsored & funded tool. It's their job to manipulate the masses.

Fortunately, I think a lot of people have woken up to that fact. Time for a manufactured emergency to get the sheeps back in line? Can't be having people question things. They might find answers that put our government in a very shitty light. hehehehehehehehehe..... oh wait, they already are.... Look! It's usama! Look! Iran is making nuclear weapons (hey, at least Barack can say that word properly) Look! We're all gonna die of the flu.... Look over there! Look over there!


pppffftttt:fing27

hehehehehehehehehe....... gee, does my DoubtingThomas attitude classify me as a Potential Violent Homegrown Terrorist yet? :fing27 times two.

 

[Accountable]

The people who are going after Obama's birth certificate are conservative (partisan) who are looking to strike down his agenda and/or are raciest nincompoops who can't believe this country would actually have the nerve to elect a black man. Certain news sources feed them this garbage and they lap it up.

:24::24::24::24: Raciest?? :willy_nilly::24::24:
Sorry, but that put a really weird visual in my head. Made you smile a little too, dinnit?


Lemme get this straight. Are all people who are looking to "strike down" Obama's agenda racist or just the one's who want to see an original birth certificate?

 

[MoonOwl]

Ya know, if that were true about Barry's BC, it would have been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt when he entered the race. Don't you think the GOP would have taken him down with that "Fact"? That they didn't should tell you it's all bs. Cuz you know darn well they would have been screaming from the rooftops. It has no real legs. Just distraction value.

 

[Minor Axis]

:24::24::24::24: Raciest?? :willy_nilly::24::24:
Sorry, but that put a really weird visual in my head. Made you smile a little too, dinnit?


Lemme get this straight. Are all people who are looking to "strike down" Obama's agenda racist or just the one's who want to see an original birth certificate?

Spell check did not catch that for some reason (raceist). . You're a smart guy, I separated the two groups. :smiley24:

 

[Meirionnydd]

Oh and as I'm thinking of the various conspiracy theories out there, I notice, most seem to be centered around politics/government. FDR and Pearl Harbor. JFK's assasination. The alien landing at Roswell, NM. Why is that? Is it related to power?

You see, some people are extremely stupid.

Couple that with their lack of knowledge on almost any issue and extreme skepticism of factually and empirically based evidence, you get some very crazy and extremely implausible ideas out there.

 

[Margene]

Ya know, if that were true about Barry's BC, it would have been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt when he entered the race. Don't you think the GOP would have taken him down with that "Fact"? That they didn't should tell you it's all bs. Cuz you know darn well they would have been screaming from the rooftops. It has no real legs. Just distraction value.

Go back to this, if there was a chance Obama's birth certificate was falsified, why wouldn't Hillary have taken him down with it? :cool

You see, some people are extremely stupid.

Couple that with their lack of knowledge on almost any issue and extreme skepticism of factually and empirically based evidence, you get some very crazy and extremely implausible ideas out there.

I do my own research, including the sources I disdain. I don't know everyone doesn't.