Camp Fallujah Goes Back To Iraqis

[Peter Parka]

Hiter was no threat to the US. I bet you're glad we policed him a little.

You're welcome, by the way.

Hitler was allies and fighting a war along side a country that bombed one of your naval bases on home soil, that's the only reason you got involved in WWII

 

[wednesday]

ruh roh...

gentlemen...though it excites me so when you debate....

I really dont wanna go down the whole who was fighting who in the WWII

Your gonna open a whole new can of worms.

 

[SgtSpike]

I think the reason a lot of people are uncomfortable with the decision to go into Iraq is because:
a. we hadn't finished what we'd started in Afghanistan and that is still proving to be costly not only in dollars but our troops' lives
b. we were given the reason of weapons of mass distruction then "oops sorry" it's because Saddam and the Osama are in cahoots..."oops sorry...I'll come in again." Right, he's a genocidal dictator who needs to be taken out. When you're lied to repeatedly about the rational behind it, you sort of throw your hands up after awhile.
c. while there have been successes in Iraq, this has gone on far too long, cost far too many lives, and still there isn't a real resolve to it yet...meanwhile Afghanistan goes on and now there is the possibility of conflict with Iran because let's face it...no matter where you stand pro or con on the war, it wasn't as well thought out as it should have been.

That said, and I know you and I are on opposite spectrums politically, I think going after Milosevic was the right move and I would actually like to see us have the resources to do much much more in Darfur...because frankly, their situation is far more dire than the Iraq we invaded in 03. However, I think right now we just don't have said resources because of the missteps we've made regarding Iraq.

I would agree with that statement. We should have had 3x the number of troops in Afghanistan and Iraq to start with, and this whole thing would have been over much sooner.

 

[SgtSpike]

Hitler was allies and fighting a war along side a country that bombed one of your naval bases on home soil, that's the only reason you got involved in WWII

Lol, never mind the mass genocide that was happening...

 

[wednesday]

*rolls eyes in despair n steps from thread before she becomes in a losing battle*

 

[dt3]

Hitler was allies and fighting a war along side a country that bombed one of your naval bases on home soil, that's the only reason you got involved in WWII

But by your logic, we shouldn't have gotten involved with Germany.

Here's my point. I see it as our duty to stand up when we see a wrong. Obviously you disagree. I think it's noble and honorable to stand up for someone who can't do it for themselves. Obviously you disagree.

I for one am glad that Hitler is gone, that Milosevic is gone, that Noriega is gone, that Hussein is gone, that Mussolini is gone, and countless other dictators are gone. I'm glad that my country has had the balls to stand up when injustices are commited. You see it as policing the world, I see it as fighting for what's right. No, our country isn't perfect and god knows we've had our share of fuck ups, and we certainly can't right every wrong in the world. But I sure am proud that we try.

 

[Peter Parka]

Lol, never mind the mass genocide that was happening...

The USA had no interest in that until Japan bomber Pearl harbour, that's why they stayed out of the war so long, all they did about that until then was accept Jewish refugees.

 

[SgtSpike]

But by your logic, we shouldn't have gotten involved with Germany.

Here's my point. I see it as our duty to stand up when we see a wrong. Obviously you disagree. I think it's noble and honorable to stand up for someone who can't do it for themselves. Obviously you disagree.

I for one am glad that Hitler is gone, that Milosevic is gone, that Noriega is gone, that Hussein is gone, that Mussolini is gone, and countless other dictators are gone. I'm glad that my country has had the balls to stand up when injustices are commited. You see it as policing the world, I see it as fighting for what's right. No, our country isn't perfect and god knows we've had our share of fuck ups, and we certainly can't right every wrong in the world. But I sure am proud that we try.

Well said, and I agree 100%.

 

[dt3]

I think the reason a lot of people are uncomfortable with the decision to go into Iraq is because:
a. we hadn't finished what we'd started in Afghanistan and that is still proving to be costly not only in dollars but our troops' lives
b. we were given the reason of weapons of mass distruction then "oops sorry" it's because Saddam and the Osama are in cahoots..."oops sorry...I'll come in again." Right, he's a genocidal dictator who needs to be taken out. When you're lied to repeatedly about the rational behind it, you sort of throw your hands up after awhile.
c. while there have been successes in Iraq, this has gone on far too long, cost far too many lives, and still there isn't a real resolve to it yet...meanwhile Afghanistan goes on and now there is the possibility of conflict with Iran because let's face it...no matter where you stand pro or con on the war, it wasn't as well thought out as it should have been.

That said, and I know you and I are on opposite spectrums politically, I think going after Milosevic was the right move and I would actually like to see us have the resources to do much much more in Darfur...because frankly, their situation is far more dire than the Iraq we invaded in 03. However, I think right now we just don't have said resources because of the missteps we've made regarding Iraq.

I'm not saying the war has been ran effectively, and I'm not denying that we went in under what we now know to be false pretenses. I posted this article for 2 reasons. 1) It's a major positive note that is symbolic of the progress that's been made 2) I spent a year of my life on that base in some incredibly shitty circumstances, and I'm impressed that in under 2 years they've turned it completely around.

 

[Peter Parka]

But by your logic, we shouldn't have gotten involved with Germany.

Here's my point. I see it as our duty to stand up when we see a wrong. Obviously you disagree. I think it's noble and honorable to stand up for someone who can't do it for themselves. Obviously you disagree.

I for one am glad that Hitler is gone, that Milosevic is gone, that Noriega is gone, that Hussein is gone, that Mussolini is gone, and countless other dictators are gone. I'm glad that my country has had the balls to stand up when injustices are commited. You see it as policing the world, I see it as fighting for what's right. No, our country isn't perfect and god knows we've had our share of fuck ups, and we certainly can't right every wrong in the world. But I sure am proud that we try.

So you agree we should make war on every non democracy as soon as possible then? In an ideal world, it would be great to bring democracy to the whole world but even a powerful nation like the USA cant do that, we should stick to only using war as a last resort.

 

[Peter Parka]

I'm not saying the war has been ran effectively, and I'm not denying that we went in under what we now know to be false pretenses. I posted this article for 2 reasons. 1) It's a major positive note that is symbolic of the progress that's been made 2) I spent a year of my life on that base in some incredibly shitty circumstances, and I'm impressed that in under 2 years they've turned it completely around.

This topic has gone rather offtopic so I'll stick to this point and agree with you fully here.:nod::thumbup

 

[dt3]

So you agree we should make war on every non democracy as soon as possible then? In an ideal world, it would be great to bring democracy to the whole world but even a powerful nation like the USA cant do that, we should stick to only using war as a last resort.

I never said we should go to war to spread democracy Peter, you're reading things into my post that aren't there. I said we should go to war to help people who can't help themselves, to correct injustices, to combat genocides, and to do what's right. The word democracy isn't even in my post Peter.

 

[Peter Parka]

I never said we should go to war to spread democracy Peter, you're reading things into my post that aren't there. I said we should go to war to help people who can't help themselves, to correct injustices, to combat genocides, and to do what's right. The word democracy isn't even in my post Peter.

Where Iraq is concerned, I'd rather that this was achieved like after the first Iraq war when we promised to help rebels if they started a civil war. Unfortunately, when they did, we buggered off back home and left them to be slaughtered.

 

[dt3]

Where Iraq is concerned, I'd rather that this was achieved like after the first Iraq war when we promised to help rebels if they started a civil war. Unfortunately, when they did, we buggered off back home and left them to be slaughtered.

I've said 1000 times that we shouldn't have backed off back then. We had his balls to the wall and we should have thrown him out then. But that adds nothing to this debate. That's history, and history can't be changed. It is what it is.

 

[Peter Parka]

I've said 1000 times that we shouldn't have backed off back then. We had his balls to the wall and we should have thrown him out then. But that adds nothing to this debate. That's history, and history can't be changed. It is what it is.

I'd just have rather the situation be resolved something like that, I guess though that once bitten, twice shy and it would be hard to get the rebels to trust us again, I reckon this probably didn't help second time round. Even so, it was completely the wrong time to attack Iraq and it was done on a lie, I guess thats what I have the biggest problem with.

 

[dt3]

I'd just have rather the situation be resolved something like that, I guess though that once bitten, twice shy and it would be hard to get the rebels to trust us again, I reckon this probably didn't help second time round. Even so, it was completely the wrong time to attack Iraq and it was done on a lie, I guess thats what I have the biggest problem with.

As long as we agree that turning over what was one of the worst spots in the country to Iraqi control is a positive sign, I don't see any point debating the merits of the war. I'm pretty sure we've beat that dead horse a couple of times before

 

[Alien Allen]

I've said 1000 times that we shouldn't have backed off back then. We had his balls to the wall and we should have thrown him out then. But that adds nothing to this debate. That's history, and history can't be changed. It is what it is.

at the time it was the right decision though. there was no support for our invading. we had kicked SH's ass and had him in a stranglehold militarily.

in hind sight who knows if it would have made any difference except to those who he later slaughtered.

I suppose we could have used intel to take him out but that would have been tough. and then one would have needed to wipe out his family. perhaps a bit of a bombing raid like we did with Khadafi might have been the way to go. Sure quieted that guys ass up didn't it.

 

[BlackCherry]

The USA had no interest in that until Japan bomber Pearl harbour, that's why they stayed out of the war so long, all they did about that until then was accept Jewish refugees.

After having visited the Holocaust museum in DC and reading up this subject, I agree to a point with Peter's statement. The US with FDR at the helm tried to stay insular and out of WWII as much as they could. Public surveys were even done asking the US if they felt what was happening to the Jews was wrong...while the overwhelming majority said yes, the same overwhelming majority didn't want to grant them refuge either...so, we really didn't accept Jewish refugees willingly either. It really wasn't until we were bombed and saw that our English allies could potentially be severely damaging and thus leaving us open for being royally screwed that we stepped up...I have to say I cringe every time I hear an American say to a Brit, "Well, at least we saved your ass in WWII." That's shameful...we only did so because it was in our best interest...it didn't become a humanitarian effort until we actually got there and saw what was happening. My family has a history of vets and I absolutely respect anyone's sacrifice for this country when they sign on the dotted line, but I think we...i.e. our government...needs to show a little humility at times as well...

I'm not saying the war has been ran effectively, and I'm not denying that we went in under what we now know to be false pretenses. I posted this article for 2 reasons. 1) It's a major positive note that is symbolic of the progress that's been made 2) I spent a year of my life on that base in some incredibly shitty circumstances, and I'm impressed that in under 2 years they've turned it completely around.

Nor am I trying to say it was all shit either...I can see both sides of it even though I was one of the ones saying we shouldn't be there in the first place. That said though and given that we are, I think there have been many successes in Iraq...however, I think they are unfortunately overshadowed and the general public is completely disenfranchised with it because of the rational going into it. It's a shame as well because many men and women sacrificed a lot to achieve that. Ultimately, the goal has been to get the Iraqi people and military to a position where they can take their country back...and that progress can be seen. I think the general public is just focusing more on what's at stake at home. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, it just is what it is at this time.

 

[Peter Parka]

After having visited the Holocaust museum in DC and reading up this subject, I agree to a point with Peter's statement. The US with FDR at the helm tried to stay insular and out of WWII as much as they could. Public surveys were even done asking the US if they felt what was happening to the Jews was wrong...while the overwhelming majority said yes, the same overwhelming majority didn't want to grant them refuge either...so, we really didn't accept Jewish refugees willingly either. It really wasn't until we were bombed and saw that our English allies could potentially be severely damaging and thus leaving us open for being royally screwed that we stepped up...I have to say I cringe every time I hear an American say to a Brit, "Well, at least we saved your ass in WWII." That's shameful...we only did so because it was in our best interest...it didn't become a humanitarian effort until we actually got there and saw what was happening. My family has a history of vets and I absolutely respect anyone's sacrifice for this country when they sign on the dotted line, but I think we...i.e. our government...needs to show a little humility at times as well...

Thankyou!:clap:clap:clap

As long as we agree that turning over what was one of the worst spots in the country to Iraqi control is a positive sign, I don't see any point debating the merits of the war. I'm pretty sure we've beat that dead horse a couple of times before

Agreed and agreed.:nod:

 

[groundpounder]

you really know how to fuck up a thread, don'tcha Peter??

Peter, this thread isn't for debating the reasoning behind going to war. It's to highlight a positive, significant step in ending it.

Excellence