California Water Wars

[retro]

I don't know how many of y'all are aware of the water issue that's plaguing the Central Valley... basically, because of a 3" bait fish, the Delta Smelt, almost no water is being pumped into the valley for agricultural use. This has resulted in farms being largely unable to plant their crops, which has then led to mass unemployment.... we're sitting at 20-40% unemployment in some areas in the valley right now.

Delta Smelt

The Central Valley is the richest agricultural area in the world... we output the most dairy products of any area in the world, about 1/2 of all tomatoes grown in the United States, a massive amount of citrus, corn, and numerous other crops. Without the water, these crops can't grow... so because a 3" bait fish needs to be protected, upwards of 40,000 people are without jobs, and arguably our country's most important agricultural area has been crippled.

The Westlands Water District has been the most impacted, this stretch of land accounted for over $1 billion in melons, tomatoes, almonds, cotton and a myriad of other crops.

Westlands Water District

How are these two issues related you might ask yourselves. Well, the Westlands Water District gets almost all of it's water from the Sacramento River delta, home of the... Delta Smelt. In August of 2007, a Federal Judge ruled that because of the declining population of the Delta Smelt, water deliveries through the Banks Pumping Plant would be severely curtailed in an attempt to protect the Delta Smelt.

This issue has become incredibly political now... my local representative, Rep. Devin Nunes (R, CA-21) introduced three amendments to the 2010 Energy and Water Appropriations bill... all three amendments would have provided relief by immediately restoring the flow of water to the valley. All three amendments were struck down by party line votes, preventing them from even coming to the floor for discussion. One of the amendments Democrats killed last week was identical to language approved by House Democrats and Republicans in 2003. That language dealt with New Mexico’s silvery minnow – which looks nearly identical to the delta smelt. What changed between 2003 and 2009?

The following are YouTube videos of the House Appropriations Committee defeating one amendment on July 7th, it's so ridiculously political I don't even know what to say.

 

[retro]

(for some reason it wouldn't let me post my entire thread, so here's the rest... or not)

[youtube]PykWODgPwIA[/youtube]

and apparently, only one YouTube video per post?

 

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[youtube]hrUAgHbkkrk[/youtube]

 

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[youtube]IV9Es0sc2Ig[/youtube]

 

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And another one of Nunes speaking on the House floor, and an amendment being referred to as a "wish" amendment.

[youtube]rgTPIRMAWq4[/youtube]

 

[retro]

Unless something is done, and done soon... water prices are going to double in California, and food prices are going to increase substantially as well, and we're going to end up having to import a significant amount of our food from other countries. But with the Democrats in charge of things right now, I don't see any other result.

Sorry for all the extra posts, but for whatever reason, I couldn't put anything below YouTube videos...

 

[Alien Allen]

This is just the beginning of water control issues. They will use whatever they can to control it.

 

[Accountable]

The delta smelt?
The smelt o' the delta?

Sounds like a fart joke.


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Sirrus tho, I'll watch the vids tomorrow morning, but I think I know the convoluted bullshit I'll hear from those who think a water shortage means the waiter hasn't come by to refill the glass.

 

[dt3]

Just why the hell is it so important to save a 3" fish anyway? Species come and go. I can see saving species that would have a big impact on an ecosystem or something, but the delta smelt? Apparently their only contribution to an ecosystem in their one-year lifespan is they get preyed on by fish that aren't native to their habitat. :dunno

Let 'em go :thumbdown :thumbdown

 

[retro]

We've appealed to the Obama administration, here was the response... Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar flew over the valley, didn't land, didn't look at anything, didn't talk to anyone... he fucking flew the fuck over the valley. Apparently a flyover is the best the administration can do for the breadbasket of the entire country.

The one silver lining of sorts here is that it's turning lifelong democrats against Obama and the democratic party. Basically what its going to come down to is whether having this 3" minnow, that does nothing but get eaten by other fish that weren't even indigenous to the delta until 40 years ago; whether that minnow is more important than 40-80k jobs, and perhaps even more importantly, our food supply as a nation. Seems kinda counter productive right now, that in this recession, after the "stimulus", and when everyone is telling you to "buy american", that we're going to end up importing all of these food products from other countries in another year or so if nothing happens.

Fortunately for me, I'm in the dairy industry, so I'm not as directly affected... but the dairies buy feed from these farmers, and the dairies need water as well... just not as much as the farmers. The dairy industry is already suffering due to the recession and milk prices being way down, to the point where many dairies are bleeding to the tune of $1,000/cow a month... and some of these dairies are 4-5k head herds. We've had dairymen in the area kill themselves because the prospects for them were so bleak. For as bad as the dairymen have it right now... the farmers are even worse off.

This also isn't just about farms and dairies here though... this whole area is dependent on agriculture. We're talking about over 4 million people who are directly affected by how well agriculture is doing... and no news outlets, almost no democrats, and nobody in the Obama administration seems to give a flying fuck about what's going on here.

 

[Minor Axis]

Humans are like spoiled children, we want what we want, screw other species where it's overfishing or cutting down the forests. The problem with placing little or no regard on other species, we cause long term effects which can come back and bite us. If you view yourself as part of the system, you should not be so anxious to stomp other species out of existence, besides the fact that the environment, this Earth is our home for the foreseeable future.

 

[retro]

Humans are like spoiled children, we want what we want, screw other species where it's overfishing or cutting down the forests. The problem with placing little or no regard on other species, we cause long term effects which can come back and bite us. If you view yourself as part of the system, you should not be so anxious to stomp other species out of existence, besides the fact that the environment, this Earth is our home for the foreseeable future.

These are bait fish that don't serve any purpose but to be eaten by non-indigenous species of bigger fish that were introduced into the ecosystem 40 years ago. Cutting off the flow of water down into the valley is also destroying an ecosystem as well, along with jobs and food supply. It hasn't even been proven that opening up the pumps is going to adversely effect the delta smelt population either. If they really cared about those fish, then they'd remove the non-indigenous species from the ecosystem, and let us have our water.

 

[Alien Allen]

Mother Nature has a way of trying to send us lessons that we tend to forget.

Build in a valley area like LA and no wonder there is smog.

Build where there are wildfires and then rebuild again and again.

Build in the desert where there normally would be no homes. Well duh the water comes from somewhere if there are no aquifers to be found in the desert.

Build in the hurricane area and rebuild again and again.

Build below sea level and have massive flooding and complain about the lack of response. And then go ahead and rebuild.

Geeze for the most intelligent beings on earth we sure are pretty friggin stupid at times.

 

[retro]

Mother Nature has a way of trying to send us lessons that we tend to forget.

Build in a valley area like LA and no wonder there is smog.

Build where there are wildfires and then rebuild again and again.

Build in the desert where there normally would be no homes. Well duh the water comes from somewhere if there are no aquifers to be found in the desert.

Build in the hurricane area and rebuild again and again.

Build below sea level and have massive flooding and complain about the lack of response. And then go ahead and rebuild.

Geeze for the most intelligent beings on earth we sure are pretty friggin stupid at times.

I'm not really seeing the correlation there...

 

[Alien Allen]

I'm not really seeing the correlation there...

They all revolve around development that has not been well thought out at times.

We build where mother nature gave us plenty of hints that it would not be wise.

If there are no aquifers to supply the water for the needs and you rely on surface waters then there are consequences. And in some cases it can also have an impact when using aquifers. Not as often as we are led to believe though.

I am not really against your view as I do not know enough of the facts. Is this a man made waterway? Are there native species that will be effected? It is not as simple sometimes.

 

[retro]

You've obviously never lived in California. Water is a ridiculously precious commodity here. We're in the midst of the worst drought we've had in 20 years; the aquifers are environmentally protected, and as such there isn't a lot of water that can be used from them. The waterway in question is the California Aquaduct, in particular the branches that bring water to the central valley. The Delta Smelt is the only species of fish that is being affected here, as far as anyone seems to be aware, but they're located in other places within the Sacramento-San Joaquin river systems, not just in the delta.

This is a situation where environmental policy is destroying the lives of thousands of people, and affecting millions, and that's just what's happening locally. When the farms die out, and we all have to pay a significant amount more for our groceries because we have to import them instead of growing them domestically, far more than just the central valley is going to feel it. But hey, one little species of bait fish that doesn't serve a purpose other than to get eaten by non-indigenous species is more important than millions of people, right?

 

[Alien Allen]

My industry has been decimated by Environmental Wackos and their causes. So I understand your pain. Unfortunately water is going to be the new oil because of many factors. You are feeling the front end of what will be much more to come I am afraid.

 

[Accountable]

[...] the aquifers are environmentally protected, and as such there isn't a lot of water that can be used from them. [...]
But hey, one little species of bait fish that doesn't serve a purpose other than to get eaten by non-indigenous species is more important than millions of people, right?

It's the religion that worships Environment. In India, Hindus starve to death while tons of nutrition-on-the-hoof roam the cities.

 

[Minor Axis]

But hey, one little species of bait fish that doesn't serve a purpose other than to get eaten by non-indigenous species is more important than millions of people, right?

Well that is one way of looking at it. As I said, it's all about us, and as Allen was trying to point out, the tendency is not to hold ourselves responsible for our bad decisions. Mankind is the number one reason for species eradication. But there are some people in this world who, as a standard think that is bad and got some laws passed to try to curb our self centeredness.

 

[retro]

Well that is one way of looking at it. As I said, it's all about us, and as Allen was trying to point out, the tendency is not to hold ourselves responsible for our bad decisions. Mankind is the number one reason for species eradication. But there are some people in this world who, as a standard think that is bad and got some laws passed to try to curb our self centeredness.

There is no self-centeredness here though. The environmentalists, and by extension now, the courts, have decided that fish are more important than people. The pumps being turned off has had no provable effect on the population of the delta smelt, but yet the pumps remain off. You're saying that people are selfish and want to put themselves as more important than other species on the planet, but why is that bad, but it's okay to put another species as more important than us? How does that make any sense whatsoever?