Bush's State of the Union!

[BreakfastSurreal]

I strongly reccommend everyone here read Lou Dobb's book called "War on the Middle Class". It might shed light for you on what is really happening if you don't already know. Of course Bush is going to give a good fucking speech. Do you think HE wrote that speech?! HELL no! lol. His ratings are awful, and whoever wrote that speech for him got PAID bigtime, trust me. His ratings will go up a little bit again...but he wwon't follow through.

 

[EmperorKupcake]

I strongly reccommend everyone here read Lou Dobb's book called "War on the Middle Class". It might shed light for you on what is really happening if you don't already know. Of course Bush is going to give a good fucking speech. Do you think HE wrote that speech?! HELL no! lol. His ratings are awful, and whoever wrote that speech for him got PAID bigtime, trust me. His ratings will go up a little bit again...but he wwon't follow through.

Well, you no doubtedly have a really good point. However, I'm not interpreting the speech as much as the facts that were stated in it. It was a persuasive speech, no doubt about that. However, clever wording won't get you past raw facts that you give, and that are analyzed later on. Its not like we're interpreting quotes or anything, so speech writing (unless he's using subliminal messages! Conspiracy!) should have little impact on this discussion about the facts he stated, and their significance.

 

[BreakfastSurreal]

the whole THING is about interpretation of facts. Facts are facts, and they are common knowledge. Democrats don't think he is lying about the facts for the most part...they do however disagree with what he says is the right thing to do.

 

[OUZBnd]

Well, you have to understand the different types of taxes. I'm no economic professor, but... There are a couple different types of foreign taxes. There are those that are meant to prevent people from buying the product at all, to protect the local American companies. Then there are the taxes that the government imposes on imported goods to make huge profits. Now, these are not only imported goods, but some common American products. Take cigarrettes, for example. The US government taxes the hell out of them, because people are addicted and are willing to pay such a high price, and the gov't is making rediculous money off it. Now, Asian good being imported are pretty similar. We are very dependant on imports, from Asia particularly. So, we can't tax everything from Asia to hell, but we can grab some of the profits. Taxing Asian goods in this way is actually doing better for our economy than promising jobs for Americans is (for the most part).

I know about taxes, importing, exporting, globalization, offshoring, and outsourcing, so don't take this personally, but you don't understand what you are talking about. Whatever social studies teacher who told you that taxing imports from Asia is better for our economy must be from Asia. Read a book called "The Walmart Effect". Read about globalization (not all bad either), read about how a business works.

 

[EmperorKupcake]

I know about taxes, importing, exporting, globalization, offshoring, and outsourcing, so don't take this personally, but you don't understand what you are talking about. Whatever social studies teacher who told you that taxing imports from Asia is better for our economy must be from Asia. Read a book called "The Walmart Effect". Read about globalization (not all bad either), read about how a business works.

Well, I think a little explanation as to why my claims are not accurrate is necessary

You can't just claim that my statements are wrong because you say so, then throw a book around like its the ultimate authority

 

[LockeAnonBean]

(read entire debate)

Well Mr. Kupcake I have a few issues,

First, Yes it was an utter mistake, the problem is, we could've had him thrown out of office for countless reasons, and yet, no one in the senate had the spine to do so. Now its far too late to make an effective case I mean c'mon

Tom DeLay anyone? That was just horrendous.

Patriot Act (recently done away with) huge violation, no one blocks it.

Now lets go to economics. We're taxing everything from Asia, yet y'know China is a huge potential for the next super power. It isn't the fledgling little state anymore.

Taxing one country's stuff obviously as most know, doesn't make the country happy.


All in all, that's that with internal and economy

Now for the war,

The war was never truly meant to be. The decision for 20,000 soldiers to help stabilize Iraq was a poor choice with alternatives that would've made a better choice.

A: send a smaller force to Iraq, and wield the remainder to quell the terrorists in Afghanistan. They're still there, and they're still at large.

B: More funding for Military, they're not doing too much development there as far as I know, I'm no military expert but the last I checked their improvements haven't been overly impressive.

well there are many more but I have some things to do

Finally, there is one thing I must agree with

The entire war is not George Bush's fault,

If you ask me, Rumsfeld really really messed up, big time.
Desintigration of the opposing army,
Lack of control after the takover of Baghdad,
and others that are just, beyond any comprehension.

Dick Cheney also has not helped. George Bush constantly defers to him.

As far as I know, I don't remember the Vice President having any authority to do anything except wait around for a (God Forbid as the Country doesn't NEED an emergency) emergency.

All in all Mr. Kupcake, President Bush is perhaps slammed overly hard, yes,

But honestly, you're being too lenient on him.

have a pleasant evening :cool
-Anon

 

[elluko]

Hmmm, this looks more like a politicalhotwire thread than an otz one to me.
Whatever.

 

[OUZBnd]

Well, I think a little explanation as to why my claims are not accurrate is necessary

You can't just claim that my statements are wrong because you say so, then throw a book around like its the ultimate authority

First, I dont have time or the desire to explain to you the complex nature of what I am refering to. Second, it's not my place to. You should know what you are talking about before you talk about it. I'm not saying "you are wrong because I say so." I am saying you are wrong because you are wrong, and I gave you the resource to look it up your self and see that you misunderstand what you are talking about. Nothing personal, just research some of it and you might understand my perspect a little more.

 

[IntruderLS1]

EmperorKupcake, you have given me a moment of pause.

You're under attack for your new found viewpoint from the peace and love crowd, but don't let the haters out there discourage you from viewing the world as a larger place. The uproar of voices you hear whenever you say "I don't HATE Bush" will mostly boil down to catch phrases, and one liners that nobody has researched (or even thought all the way through in many cases).

I'm not going to get too deep into this right now, (I can hardly keep my eyes open), but mega kudos for poking your head up, and taking a look around.

To the Bush Lied group, I would encourage you to look up some recent American history. Pull up some info from the years 2001-2003. If Bush lied, so did the people who are now feeding you your opinions.

Good night all.

 

[EmperorKupcake]

(read entire debate)

Well Mr. Kupcake I have a few issues,

1. First, Yes it was an utter mistake, the problem is, we could've had him thrown out of office for countless reasons, and yet, no one in the senate had the spine to do so. Now its far too late to make an effective case I mean c'mon

2. Tom DeLay anyone? That was just horrendous.

3. Patriot Act (recently done away with) huge violation, no one blocks it.

4. Now lets go to economics. We're taxing everything from Asia, yet y'know China is a huge potential for the next super power. It isn't the fledgling little state anymore.

5. Taxing one country's stuff obviously as most know, doesn't make the country happy.


All in all, that's that with internal and economy

Now for the war,

6. The war was never truly meant to be. The decision for 20,000 soldiers to help stabilize Iraq was a poor choice with alternatives that would've made a better choice.

A: send a smaller force to Iraq, and wield the remainder to quell the terrorists in Afghanistan. They're still there, and they're still at large.

B: More funding for Military, they're not doing too much development there as far as I know, I'm no military expert but the last I checked their improvements haven't been overly impressive.

well there are many more but I have some things to do

Finally, there is one thing I must agree with

The entire war is not George Bush's fault,

If you ask me, Rumsfeld really really messed up, big time.
Desintigration of the opposing army,
Lack of control after the takover of Baghdad,
and others that are just, beyond any comprehension.

Dick Cheney also has not helped. George Bush constantly defers to him.

As far as I know, I don't remember the Vice President having any authority to do anything except wait around for a (God Forbid as the Country doesn't NEED an emergency) emergency.

All in all Mr. Kupcake, President Bush is perhaps slammed overly hard, yes,

But honestly, you're being too lenient on him.

have a pleasant evening :cool
-Anon

For the sake of convenience, I numbered everything you said so that I can respond to it efficiently and conveniently.

1. I'm not arguing that Bush was a good president. I'm simply arguing that the hype against him is overexagerated tremendously, and that we don't give him enough credit for his sucesses. He has definently broken the constitution on a few occassions, but when the Republicans hold majority in the Congress for so long, why would Congress impeach?

2. Eh, could've been worse.

3. Well, yes, the patriot act was a violation of personal rights and freedoms, but thats not what I'm arguing.

4. Yep, I agree. China is becoming a pretty industrialized nation. I don't understand where we disagree on this one, or how its specifically relevant to my statements.

5. Yep, taxing the country to hell won't make it happy. But seriously, when its the US, with the rediculous trade options and versatility that we have, not to mention the amazing military and technology, we can do whatever we want with most countries.

6. I don't necessarily agree with sending such a large force. I believe that its overkill. However, we do have to reinforce the troops that are their, or admit defeat and face the horrible consequences.

A. Thats what we should be doing.

B. Our funding for military and defense is by far the highest in the world. The US spends 376,200,000,000 on defense in general, while the next largest budget is Japan, with 41,400,000,000. Heh, I have to admit, I had to crack open a book on that one

Oh, and thank you. I had a very lovely evening. How nice of you

EmperorKupcake, you have given me a moment of pause.

You're under attack for your new found viewpoint from the peace and love crowd, but don't let the haters out there discourage you from viewing the world as a larger place. The uproar of voices you hear whenever you say "I don't HATE Bush" will mostly boil down to catch phrases, and one liners that nobody has researched (or even thought all the way through in many cases).

I'm not going to get too deep into this right now, (I can hardly keep my eyes open), but mega kudos for poking your head up, and taking a look around.

To the Bush Lied group, I would encourage you to look up some recent American history. Pull up some info from the years 2001-2003. If Bush lied, so did the people who are now feeding you your opinions.

Good night all.

Thank you. I gotta admit, I was getting pretty demoralized throughout the fray
I gotta admit, thats pretty encouraging .