Believers, without apotheosis, you lie when saying that God exists.

[Greatest I am]

Believers, without apotheosis, you lie when saying that God exists.
Most believers always parrot their dogma as if it is a known truth to them. This hear sy they believe to be true.
Many claim a personal relationship with their God yet do not claim any apotheosis or personal contact with their God.
This means of course that they believe their WORD/Holy book to be completely true in terms of leading them to their God, although most do not really follow it completely.
Some read literally and begin their belief in God from the standpoint that He does all kids of miracles and is a creator God even though, in Christianity and Islam, this means that their beliefs begin with a talking snake and a God who seems to want to deny man the knowledge that gives us our moral sense.
The knowledge of good and evil.
They see man as somehow complete without a moral sense and see a fall in Genesis when actually it was a fall up to being truly human.
Some believers think that God actually speaks to them, some daily, but when questioned admit to not really hearing God.
Not surprising because the moment someone claims an actual contact, the names and labels start to fly. Ancient prophets were venerated and wrote scripture. Modern prophets are scorned as not quite running on all cylinders. I know this first hand. Oh well.

That aside, I have this pet peeve that says that I never lie. I do not do this for any altruistic reason. I do it because I am somewhat of an absent minded professor and have this fear of being caught in a lie or in saying something that I cannot prove.
Believers tend not to follow this philosophy and to me are lying all the time with their claims of what God is and what he can do, etc.
When I hear such I see that believers have given God all possible attribute taken to their maximums. God is now omni this and omni that and basically omni everything. Creator of all things except of course evil.
This seems to be the only thing that man is said to be omni at.
Better than having absolutely nothing attributed to our creative talent I guess.
This does not agree with sculpture but then many Christians have their own favorite interpretation to the point where Christianity is rather fragmented with many different sects. Oslam is following suite with a variety of cults and beliefs.
The point is that all these believers are saying things that, if in any court of law, would be told to only tell what they know to be absolutely true.
Without an apotheosis believers cannot be 100% sure.
Perhaps this is why no believer has yet to show his faith the way Jesus said they could.
And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

The basic question that I would then like to ask is,
When you say that God exists, are you telling a truth that you would swear on a Bible to?
If so, then how can you be sure without an apotheosis?

Regards
DL

 

[Lord Stanley]

you may want to define apotheosis

 

[Greatest I am]

you may want to define apotheosis

Main Entry: apo·the·o·sis
Pronunciation: \ə-ˌpä-thē-ˈō-səs, ˌa-pə-ˈthē-ə-səs\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural apo·the·o·ses \-ˌsēz\
Etymology: Late Latin, from Greek apotheōsis, from apotheoun to deify, from apo- + theos god
Date: circa 1580
1 : elevation to divine status : deification
2 : the perfect example : quintessence <this is the literary apotheosis of the shaggy dog story — Thomas Sutcliffe>
— apo·the·o·size \ˌa-pə-ˈthē-ə-ˌsīz, ə-ˈpä-thē-ə-\ transitive verb

Contact with God automatically elevates one to be a perfect example.

One cannot touch the mind of God without taking on the attributes of that mind.

It also proves the existence of God. The prophets while--in the spirit--experienced apotheosis.

I would add to the above a rapprochement or getting to know the thinking of God.

Regards
DL

 

[Dana]

Let people believe what they want to believe. I believe theres something bigger to what we can see. as long as they don't thrust it upon your beliefs I don't see the problem. You people who constantly debate the non existance of God are just as bad.

 

[Lord Stanley]

so is this close to nirvana this state of apotheosis

 

[Greatest I am]

Let people believe what they want to believe. I believe theres something bigger to what we can see. as long as they don't thrust it upon your beliefs I don't see the problem. You people who constantly debate the non existance of God are just as bad.

Nice short sighted remark.

Check this and recant if you have half a brain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhjIlhAShuU&feature=related

You might also think of 9-11 just to get a balanced view.

Regards
DL

 

[Alien Allen]

yawn..

 

[Greatest I am]

so is this close to nirvana this state of apotheosis

To me, it is the opposite.
It forces duty to tell others.

The only thing we owe each other is the truth as we know it.
It is hard to ask that something be taken as real without any evidence to show.
The old prophets were venerated and wrote scripture.
The new prophets are just labeled in unpleasant ways and are generally ignored.

Regards
DL

 

[alice in chains]

To me, it is the opposite.
It forces duty to tell others.

The only thing we owe each other is the truth as we know it.
It is hard to ask that something be taken as real without any evidence to show.
The old prophets were venerated and wrote scripture.
The new prophets are just labeled in unpleasant ways and are generally ignored.

Regards
DL

I understand your need to spread your thoughts and sense of duty. What you need to realize is continually bothering "lost people" or whatever they're called, puhes people away from your efforts. It can actually make people despise what you say even if they agree with it.

 

[Greatest I am]

I understand your need to spread your thoughts and sense of duty. What you need to realize is continually bothering "lost people" or whatever they're called, puhes people away from your efforts. It can actually make people despise what you say even if they agree with it.

That is why I try to push with gentleness, reason and taste.

I do not crave love but agreement. As long as they agree.

Regards
DL

 

[Lord Stanley]

i do find this subject interesting

 

[Greatest I am]

i do find this subject interesting

Then question, question, question.

Let me start.

Which aspect or definition of apotheosis do you find interesting?

Regards
DL

 

[Lord Stanley]

have you experienced this?

 

[Greatest I am]

have you experienced this?

Yes.

To believe me, you would have to believe in what the ancients called in the spirit.

Much of scripture was written by those who said they were in this state when revelation came or was given to them.

In modern language this would be called telepathy.

I have had two experiences only of this form of communication.

One with my wife, the other with what I call a cosmic consciousness.

If I had not had the first with my wife and her testimony that telepathy is real, then I would likely not have believed that the second was a true experience.

Have I lost you?

Regards
DL

 

[Lord Stanley]

Yes.

To believe me, you would have to believe in what the ancients called in the spirit.

Much of scripture was written by those who said they were in this state when revelation came or was given to them.

In modern language this would be called telepathy.

I have had two experiences only of this form of communication.

One with my wife, the other with what I call a cosmic consciousness.

If I had not had the first with my wife and her testimony that telepathy is real, then I would likely not have believed that the second was a true experience.

Have I lost you?

Regards
DL

no thankyou for that, i am genuinely interested, maybe a tad skeptical but open minded nonetheless

do you say that only such a connection and the subsequent knowledge ( a meeting of consciences) can make one a true believer for to lack the experience is to lack the true essence of God? Only that if this is the case and I apologise if I read this incorrectly, you may find that your point of view somewhat elitest

and i say this with utmost respect, i do not intend to inflame this as i am thankful for the chance to discuss this issue

 

[Greatest I am]

no thankyou for that, i am genuinely interested, maybe a tad skeptical but open minded nonetheless

Doubt is always good.
It keeps you on your mental toes and drives away gullibility.

do you say that only such a connection and the subsequent knowledge ( a meeting of consciences) can make one a true believer for to lack the experience is to lack the true essence of God?

Tough to answer this because of how I found God.

True belief in your paradigm may be required to open the door, so to speak, to contact with God. I can only go by my own experience here.

The short story is that I had developed my paradigm or theory of what reality had to be from what I saw heard and learned around me of religion and God.

It did not conform to what people were trying to make me believe. In fact I had taken the minority position. Very minority, In fact I could not get agreement by basically anyone.

I basically challenged God to either show or go from my thinking altogether and I was ready to scrap my ideas and look to something else for the vindication that I wanted.

It happens that I was correct in my views and God showed.
Seek and you shall find applies here.
The Godhead is like a teacher at the front of a class that is working on an exam that has no time limit. He patiently waits for the students to finish their papers with enough confidence in their logic to brave handing that paper in for a mark. He marks it instantly for those who are right in their thinking and I think ignores those who are not thinking close enough to the mark.
It/He does it this way because there is both mental pain and pleasure in the encounter and this is also why He does not seek us and it is to us to seek Him.

So basically, one can have faith and belief before touching the mind of God and indeed it may be imperative that one does have enough faith in ones thinking to take the leap to apotheosis.
It has to be the right God though.
It is not the miracle working God.
Trust your senses and logic on this.

Only that if this is the case and I apologise if I read this incorrectly, you may find that your point of view somewhat elitest

It may have gone that way because I have not found any other who has found the way.

and i say this with utmost respect, i do not intend to inflame this as i am thankful for the chance to discuss this issue

Respect has to be earned and I have that when I am discussing morals and ethics but have gained only fleeting respect on my position of what God is.

Few want to believe in such a benign God. This I think is because most are thinking that God is omni this and omni that and creator et all.

They do not recognize the truth even when I show them the Bible verses that agree with what must be. The indoctrination runs deep.
A further draw back is that most live in a world of us and them. They learn to love to hate and take away the hell or punishment that they want for --the others-- and they are not pleased at all.

Follow your own logic trail to apotheosis, not by seeing what you see but by seeing what God sees as He looks down on us. Key to my paradigm is recognition of that fact that every thing that we see and live in, even with evils and woes, is evolving perfection.

Things are always as good as they can be at any point in time and always moving/evolving to a more perfect state.

Not an easy view to see but if you try to think as Darwin did when he landed on the Galapagos Islands it then become easier to see.
Do you think that he found a perfectly evolving system or a system that was flawed?

Regards
DL

 

[Lord Stanley]

thank you much to digest and think on

 

[Minor Axis]

Main Entry: apo·the·o·sis
Pronunciation: \ə-ˌpä-thē-ˈō-səs, ˌa-pə-ˈthē-ə-səs\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural apo·the·o·ses \-ˌsēz\
Etymology: Late Latin, from Greek apotheōsis, from apotheoun to deify, from apo- + theos god
Date: circa 1580
1 : elevation to divine status : deification
2 : the perfect example : quintessence <this is the literary apotheosis of the shaggy dog story — Thomas Sutcliffe>
— apo·the·o·size \ˌa-pə-ˈthē-ə-ˌsīz, ə-ˈpä-thē-ə-\ transitive verb

Contact with God automatically elevates one to be a perfect example.

One cannot touch the mind of God without taking on the attributes of that mind.

It also proves the existence of God. The prophets while--in the spirit--experienced apotheosis.

I would add to the above a rapprochement or getting to know the thinking of God.

Regards
DL

Have you achieved this? Would you say the average Christian has achieved this? My guess is no. I don't really understand what point you are trying to make.

In addition, as an Agnostic, the first problem I saw with the first post in this thread is that you made a Biblical quote to reinforce your opinion, then in later posts you spoke of cosmic consciousness or telepathy as the state of mind of those who wrote the scriptures where as far as I know (I am no biblical scholar), the ancient scripts that the bible have been based on, really say no such thing. And if they do say that, there is no way to prove what the authors of ancient scripts were in contact with they were written. They could have simply been high on their drug of choice. Although the Bible is a standard for faith, it is not a standard of proof for any substantive spiritual discussions for anyone but those who have all ready swallowed the bait.

Yes the Bible is based on ancient scripts, yes it expresses some good standards, along with bad standards for modern human living, but beyond that, the origin of the ancient texts reveals no proof what so ever, they are the word of "God" or are inspired from telepathic communication with the divine.

Is the Bible your standard for truth? BTW, I hope we do have spirits and that there is an afterlife after physical death, but I won't ever say I can prove it.

And if you care to reveal more about your beliefs:
What kind of God is up in heaven, a proactive God who decides when and were you will die? Who rewards the faithful and punishes the others? How about hell? If you don't follow the path, eternal damnation?

If there is a divine entity, I don't believe he is proactive in our lives. If you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, God won't swoop in to prolong your earthly existence.
Thanks!

 

[Greatest I am]

thank you much to digest and think on

Thank God for people who actually want to think.

Look what you caused.

YouTube - James Brown - I Feel Good

Regards
DL

 

[Minor Axis]

Thank God for people who actually want to think.

My guess is that if God looked down upon the human race, it would be the thinkers he/she/it would have the most trouble with.