and it passed
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JanieDough
V.I.P User
i hate that the right wing is making me feel guilty about being excited to be able to go to the doctor
i also think that the right wing is spreading a lot of panic and lies. it makes it damn near impossible for some on like me to even feel like a human, much less than a human with rights.
i also think that the right wing is spreading a lot of panic and lies. it makes it damn near impossible for some on like me to even feel like a human, much less than a human with rights.
move to Canada, we welcome you with open arms
i must admit all joking aside, i am mesmerised by the state of the US today, i cannot remember one single thing that has so vehemently divided that great nation, not Watergate, Vietnam, Cuban Missile Crisis, Irangate , none of it compares with tge vicious attacks i see today
Minor Axis
Well-Known Member
Half of the country has lost their collective minds...Now lets debate which half! Wait, we're all ready doing that!
Accountable
Well-Known Member
What rights would you be referring to?
I'm broke as a joke, I already get something called "Maine Care". Which is I believe a form of Medicare. I just don't want my care to be effected if I hafta go back into the hospital to have surgery again in 5 years.
oh by the way, the "rebate" for small businesses getting credit for insuring their employees only applies to small businesses under 25 people who don't pay anyone more than $25,000/yr. I love all the bullshit fine print.
Oh, and while the Obama administration says that they're not raising any taxes on the middle class... the Bush tax cuts expire this year, so enjoy your higher taxes.
Oh, and while the Obama administration says that they're not raising any taxes on the middle class... the Bush tax cuts expire this year, so enjoy your higher taxes.
the way i hear by the end odf it all we're all going to suffer... this goes beyond just health care. But I hear it from people who feed into this shit like it was candy.
JanieDough
V.I.P User
A right to have an opinion, to want something like health care. I keep seeing people on Fox News calling people like me who don't have health care losers. Telling me to go work hard.
I am not a loser, and I do work hard. Does this mean I can't vote for something the government is providing?
I am not going as far to say that health care is a right...not going there :ninja
My mother doesn't have health care.... People simply can't always afford it. Fuck what the news tell you.
JanieDough
V.I.P User
I mean I work and go to school.
How am I a bum?
How am I a bum?
Accountable
Well-Known Member
You have an opinion and state it often and well. Everyone, including you, has the right to want something like health care, the problem comes when people think they have the right to someone else's money to pay for something like health care, especially when they have the means to pay for it themselves. I don't believe you keep seeing people on Fox News calling people anything at all because you've said you don't watch it. Besides, why would you give two shits about what somebody who can't even do their own makeup reads off a teleprompter?? You know who you are and what you can do. You don't need approval to make your decisions. You only have to live with them.
JanieDough
V.I.P User
You're right I don't sit down and say to myself "Oh let me watch Fox News"
But does that mean it's not on at work? or that my roommate doesn't watch it? or that people at the auto shop where I brought my car to have its oil change didn't have it on in the waiting room?
You really think I just made that up? Why would I do that? Seriously?
Yes I know who I am and what I can do, but that doesn't change the fact that the conservative right likes to call people who would benefit from the healthcare reform losers and people who are mooching off the system.
There is a huge stereotype there that is always brought up by republicans or others against social welfare programs that all the beneficiaries do is sit on their ass all day.
Well here I am, a good example of how I don't sit on my ass all day and I would just happen to benefit.
I don't know if I am for all of this or against, and I am sure there are errors in the bill that passed that should be tweaked.
I don't know if I do want the government to pay for my healthcare.
I do know that I will be benefiting from the system if they do though. And guess what? I pay my taxes. So it's not just yours and every one else's money that I'm trying to take! And it's not just me who will benefit is it? All the people bitching about the healthcare reform will benefit as well.
I don't agree with other things my money has gone to but you don't see me taking it to the Supreme Court because the government made me buy into it!
Especially the one that lives in the White House :nod:
Accountable
Well-Known Member
I'd call your statement a huge stereotype as well.
You won't be taking much of my money. I might be benefiting as well; I don't really know. That's not the point. The point is the federal gov't shouldn't be taking anyone's money to give to anyone. That's the job of state and local gov't, and even they shouldn't be taking anyone's money to give to anyone who makes enough to pay taxes themselves. That's not America.JanieDough said:
This is nothing so shallow as bitching about an extra few buck on my 1040. That seems harsh but was not aimed at you in any way, I mean it. I truly believe this is not in the purview of the federal government, nor should it be. I'll wax on about my views about separation of powers & such another time because I've got to go.JanieDough said:
JanieDough
V.I.P User
I'd call your statement a huge stereotype as well.
You won't be taking much of my money. I might be benefiting as well; I don't really know. That's not the point. The point is the federal gov't shouldn't be taking anyone's money to give to anyone. That's the job of state and local gov't, and even they shouldn't be taking anyone's money to give to anyone who makes enough to pay taxes themselves. That's not America.
This is nothing so shallow as bitching about an extra few buck on my 1040. That seems harsh but was not aimed at you in any way, I mean it. I truly believe this is not in the purview of the federal government, nor should it be. I'll wax on about my views about separation of powers & such another time because I've got to go.
I agree it is a stereotype except it's what I experience around people who are against this health care reform.
That's not America? Seriously? Are you an anarchist? We shouldn't be taking anyone's money to give to anyone?
so should we all save up and pay for everything ourselves including government, garbage, fire fighters? is that your opinion? I am not saying this sarcastically - I am honestly curious...
where do you draw the line where things are ok to come from tax money and some aren't? the line, granted, just got pulled way far back, but what's right and what's not?
You're right - I don't think people should bitch about a few extra bucks! I was making a counterpoint to people saying they don't want to pay for this health care reform!
Accountable
Well-Known Member
Really, go back and read my post. I did not say "we" shouldn't, I said the federal gov't shouldn't, then I went on to say that that's the job of state and local gov't. I would hope that would make the rest of the questions moot, but just in case:
Our federal government, which is so unique and different from any European national government that it really should have another name, was never designed to take care of the individual citizen or any of the micro-governance of day-to-day life, only macro - those issues that are truly interstate or international in nature. The whole system was originally designed to keep the political power as close to home as possible.
One-size-fits-all cannot possibly be effective in this country. We're too large and diverse. Two people, one in southern California and one in rural Louisiana, both earning the same income, pay the same federal income tax. Because the cost of living in southern CA is tremendously higher than it is in LA, the Californian has the higher tax burden even though the dollar amounts are the same. Similarly, giving each of them the same amount of money from some federal program or other is also unfair to the Californian because the money won't go as far.
One nationwide program for everyone also squelches innovation. Take healthcare, for instance. A single program is too cumbersome to cover everyone, and limits the number of ideas that they can try to make improvements. Fifty programs is better. One state may find a more streamlined approach of record-keeping that other states can adopt. States with smaller populations would almost certainly have better programs. Poorer states would likely be the leaders in efficiency. Some states might decide that a government program is ideal for them while others might devise a contractor system.
And if a state decides not to have a government healthcare program, then that's their decision. Individuals would be free to move to the area that best suits their needs.
A federal system is never the way to go unless it is purely international or interstate in nature. That's why we don't have federal high schools, fire fighters, or garbage services.
Our federal government, which is so unique and different from any European national government that it really should have another name, was never designed to take care of the individual citizen or any of the micro-governance of day-to-day life, only macro - those issues that are truly interstate or international in nature. The whole system was originally designed to keep the political power as close to home as possible.
One-size-fits-all cannot possibly be effective in this country. We're too large and diverse. Two people, one in southern California and one in rural Louisiana, both earning the same income, pay the same federal income tax. Because the cost of living in southern CA is tremendously higher than it is in LA, the Californian has the higher tax burden even though the dollar amounts are the same. Similarly, giving each of them the same amount of money from some federal program or other is also unfair to the Californian because the money won't go as far.
One nationwide program for everyone also squelches innovation. Take healthcare, for instance. A single program is too cumbersome to cover everyone, and limits the number of ideas that they can try to make improvements. Fifty programs is better. One state may find a more streamlined approach of record-keeping that other states can adopt. States with smaller populations would almost certainly have better programs. Poorer states would likely be the leaders in efficiency. Some states might decide that a government program is ideal for them while others might devise a contractor system.
And if a state decides not to have a government healthcare program, then that's their decision. Individuals would be free to move to the area that best suits their needs.
A federal system is never the way to go unless it is purely international or interstate in nature. That's why we don't have federal high schools, fire fighters, or garbage services.
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