After-birth Abortion

[Francis]

I didnt say if your kid is disabled or if your kid is a result of a rape they have to be aborted. I just said in those instances i would totally understand the reason for abortion. Honestly, i dont think its a fetus's fault a women was raped therefore it shouldent be murdered... but then again its a pregnancy that the women did not choose and wasnt a result of her irresponsibility.

As for military personell, why should we be put in harms way? Because it our job to defend you and your way of life before you do. yes i am aware of peace keeping missions, and most disasters like hurricanes and whatnot are covered by the weekend warriors (National Guard). During peace time, we dont do anything. We train to deploy. Thats about it. Unless your medical personell like me, and you train to deploy in addition to taking care of soldiers with their garrison injuries and sicknesses

Doc, for your own good I will end our debate as you are no longer making any sense. Thanks for the debate and as usual you are a true man in discussing issues.. Cheers..

 

[satinbutterfly]

Why? I am pro life, but i wasnt the one who was irresponsible and got someone pregnant? Why is it my fault? I firmly believe not giving abortions legally would be a great form of birth control. You have one that you can barely afford, im sure you will think twice before you risk it by not wearing a condom. If you go get a coat hanger abortion in an alley, you probly wont ever be able to have a baby again. So if you dont ever want to have kids again, go attempt that.

Just because a pregnancy is unplanned does not mean it's due to negligence. 50% of all pregnancies are unplanned. Do you really think every single one of those is due to negligence? Many times women get pregnant while on birth control. It is not 100% effective. Condoms break. Believing that every single unplanned pregnancy is due to being irresponsible is completely ignorant. Believing that abstinence will solve unplanned pregnancy is beyond ignorant... that's just plain stupidity.

So is it more unfair the child is born to parents who dont want them? Or the fact they are getting aborted before given a chance in the world?

I would rather children never be born than to be born to parents that resent them, don't want them, abandon them or abuse them. Being someone who was abandoned as well as abused, I speak from experience.

 

[Panacea]

Just because a pregnancy is unplanned does not mean it's due to negligence. 50% of all pregnancies are unplanned. Do you really think every single one of those is due to negligence? Many times women get pregnant while on birth control. It is not 100% effective. Condoms break. Believing that every single unplanned pregnancy is due to being irresponsible is completely ignorant. Believing that abstinence will solve unplanned pregnancy is beyond ignorant... that's just plain stupidity.



I would rather children never be born than to be born to parents that resent them, don't want them, abandon them or abuse them. Being someone who was abandoned as well as abused, I speak from experience.

:clap

 

[alice in chains]

Just because a pregnancy is unplanned does not mean it's due to negligence. 50% of all pregnancies are unplanned. Do you really think every single one of those is due to negligence? Many times women get pregnant while on birth control. It is not 100% effective. Condoms break. Believing that every single unplanned pregnancy is due to being irresponsible is completely ignorant. Believing that abstinence will solve unplanned pregnancy is beyond ignorant... that's just plain stupidity.



I would rather children never be born than to be born to parents that resent them, don't want them, abandon them or abuse them. Being someone who was abandoned as well as abused, I speak from experience.

Negligence nor responsibility hasn't anything to do with getting an abortion and making it plausible.

Abstinence is crazy. That's not what nature intended.

If you were abused, then do you wish you were never born? I still donnot see why people donnot support adoption. In fact, I support regulating the amount of natural birth children should have in order to increase adoption rates.

 

[Panacea]

I support adoption, I really wish more people were open to it.

I'm not sure regulating birth rates would increase adoptions by that much (it may, I'm just not sure)...
...simply because there are some harsh realities to adoption- the cost for one, and the potential of adopting a child with some sort of biological/environmental damage is another.

A horribly extreme case of course, but I just read an intake from a woman with 8 children, all born crack addicted and all in foster care. Some in their teens. These are TOUGH children to care for. Heart breakers to adopt in many cases because of the damage done.

I know I'd much rather not be alive than be a crack addicted baby in the foster care system with the genetic predisposition for crime and severe mental illness. But again, this is where my philosophy differs my view. I don't assume not being alive is a torturous thing, and I'd prefer it to that fate.

I understand why people don't agree with that, however.

 

[satinbutterfly]

Negligence nor responsibility hasn't anything to do with getting an abortion and making it plausible.

Abstinence is crazy. That's not what nature intended.

If you were abused, then do you wish you were never born? I still donnot see why people donnot support adoption. In fact, I support regulating the amount of natural birth children should have in order to increase adoption rates.

I never said it did. Try reading my post before responding.



As for your question if I wish I had never been born, it really has no basis in the conversation and doesn't really have anything to do with the point. However, I will answer. There have been times in my life where I have wished that I hadn't been born, and sought my own death. The damage caused by my parents will not go away and it has yet to get any easier. It's permanent and will be with me forever, and it affects every single relationship and friendship I have. I just learn to live with it a little better each day.

I wouldn't wish what was done to me on anyone, not ever, and that's why I don't believe in forcing people who shouldn't or don't want children to have them.

And assuming people who believe that abortion should be legal don't believe in adoption is completely ignorant, because that's not the case. I simply support the right for the woman to choose between an abortion or adoption if the pregnancy is unwanted.

And quite frankly I think that any man who thinks he can tell women they can't get an abortion should have to go through pregnancy and labor, and then they have the right to an opinion.

As for your wanting to deny people having their own child and forcing them to adopt... well that's even more assinine.

 

[The Doc]

Doc, for your own good I will end our debate as you are no longer making any sense. Thanks for the debate and as usual you are a true man in discussing issues.. Cheers..

How so, i thought i answered your questions straight forward? guess not. Anyways, not a problem. I LOVE debating. To be honest, i am actually pro choice. I think people should have the right to abort a child, but i personally wouldent do it and would always try and talk someone out of considering an abortion, but if they got one anyways i wouldent stop being their friend or lose sleep over it. I took the pro choice side because this is a liberal site and theres no debate if theres no other side to an argument.

Just because a pregnancy is unplanned does not mean it's due to negligence. 50% of all pregnancies are unplanned. Do you really think every single one of those is due to negligence? Many times women get pregnant while on birth control. It is not 100% effective. Condoms break. Believing that every single unplanned pregnancy is due to being irresponsible is completely ignorant. Believing that abstinence will solve unplanned pregnancy is beyond ignorant... that's just plain stupidity.



I would rather children never be born than to be born to parents that resent them, don't want them, abandon them or abuse them. Being someone who was abandoned as well as abused, I speak from experience.

Oh no your on brith control! Does that magically mean you cant use condoms in addition to that? Birth control doesnt save you from STD's. If your using birth control (IUD, Depo, pills etc...) and a condom and you end up in a pregnancy well shit, that kid deserves to be born. That sperm cell killed 2 odds. Thats pretty impressive.

So you were abused and abandoned? Would you rather be dead today? Well that doesnt matter, would you rather have never been born? Part of my life i was in a juvinile behavioral modification program where the overwhelming majority were adopted kids, kids from broken homes, and alot of the adopted kids were abused and abandoned. For the sake of this thread, i can call up a few and hit them up on facebook and ask them if they would prefer to not have been born at all?

 

[Mercury]

I never said it did. Try reading my post before responding.



As for your question if I wish I had never been born, it really has no basis in the conversation and doesn't really have anything to do with the point. However, I will answer. There have been times in my life where I have wished that I hadn't been born, and sought my own death. The damage caused by my parents will not go away and it has yet to get any easier. It's permanent and will be with me forever, and it affects every single relationship and friendship I have. I just learn to live with it a little better each day.

I wouldn't wish what was done to me on anyone, not ever, and that's why I don't believe in forcing people who shouldn't or don't want children to have them.

And assuming people who believe that abortion should be legal don't believe in adoption is completely ignorant, because that's not the case. I simply support the right for the woman to choose between an abortion or adoption if the pregnancy is unwanted.

And quite frankly I think that any man who thinks he can tell women they can't get an abortion should have to go through pregnancy and labor, and then they have the right to an opinion.

As for your wanting to deny people having their own child and forcing them to adopt... well that's even more assinine.

Well said and this is precisely why abortion shall continue to be the individual's choice.

 

[alice in chains]

I never said it did. Try reading my post before responding.



As for your question if I wish I had never been born, it really has no basis in the conversation and doesn't really have anything to do with the point. However, I will answer. There have been times in my life where I have wished that I hadn't been born, and sought my own death. The damage caused by my parents will not go away and it has yet to get any easier. It's permanent and will be with me forever, and it affects every single relationship and friendship I have. I just learn to live with it a little better each day.

I wouldn't wish what was done to me on anyone, not ever, and that's why I don't believe in forcing people who shouldn't or don't want children to have them.

And assuming people who believe that abortion should be legal don't believe in adoption is completely ignorant, because that's not the case. I simply support the right for the woman to choose between an abortion or adoption if the pregnancy is unwanted.

And quite frankly I think that any man who thinks he can tell women they can't get an abortion should have to go through pregnancy and labor, and then they have the right to an opinion.

As for your wanting to deny people having their own child and forcing them to adopt... well that's even more assinine.

I never you said you said anything, lol...Anyway...

It's funny women want the full power to choos but not full financial responsibility. You expect a man to pay up if you decide to keep it right? Well, why should he be forced to if he has no right in what happens to his child? Women who are pro-choice, I find are commonly desirers of the best of both worlds. And a non-sexist, fair world doesn't work that way, no matter how some may want it to.

It's sexism because it's not equal rights. Women have the full advantage when they donnot deserve it. Women have options; just not the ones they desire. Well, that's TS. Welcome to a man's reality.

 

[HK]

You're assuming all women feel exactly the same about that, Alice.


Personally, if I decided to keep a baby knowing the father wanted no part in it and we weren't together, then I'd be making that decision on the assumption that I wouldn't be getting any help from him.

 

[Panacea]

I've seen so many women come through the courts trying to reject friend of the court involvement because they don't want to set up child support payments, they just want to take their child and live a quiet life...lawyers begging them to get assistance.

Financial support of children by both biological parents is the law, not some hypocritical pro choice flouncy opinion.
A law made by more men than women, at that!

 

[The Man]

Abortion
Justifiable homicide?
Only if the baby is killing the mother.
carry on

 

[Tim]

Abortion
Justifiable homicide?
Only if the baby is killing the mother.
carry on

How can it be a homicide if nobody is killed?

Let me ask you a question.
Are you against in vitro fertilization?
The reason I ask is because many eggs are harvested and fertilized. Some of which are implanted and some of which are discarded. So when these fertilized eggs are tossed, is that homicide?

 

[The Man]

How can it be a homicide if nobody is killed?

Let me ask you a question.
Are you against in vitro fertilization?
The reason I ask is because many eggs are harvested and fertilized. Some of which are implanted and some of which are discarded. So when these fertilized eggs are tossed, is that homicide?

How can it be a homicide if nobody is killed?

Dont be silly Tim...the baby is killed.

Let me ask you a question.
Are you against in vitro fertilization?
The reason I ask is because many eggs are harvested and fertilized. Some of which are implanted and some of which are discarded. So when these fertilized eggs are tossed, is that homicide?

Thats not a process in abortion.............besides you cant very put all thirty in her or none will survive tim....and would also be a danger to the mother...so if you wanted to equate that to abortion..it would be an abortion of medical decision ...which very few object to

 

[Tim]

Dont be silly Tim...the baby is killed.



Thats not a process in abortion.............besides you cant very put all thirty in her or none will survive tim....and would also be a danger to the mother...so if you wanted to equate that to abortion..it would be an abortion of medical decision ...which very few object to

Then when does it become life and when do you consider it abortion?

If you believe that life is at the moment of conception, then those who discard fertilized eggs are committing the same crime as those who terminate a pregnancy early on.

 

[The Man]

Then when does it become life and when do you consider it abortion?

If you believe that life is at the moment of conception, then those who discard fertilized eggs are committing the same crime as those who terminate a pregnancy early on.

I knew where you were going with that thus why I gave you the response I did tim.

 

[Tim]

I knew where you were going with that thus why I gave you the response I did tim.

Why do you refuse to answer?

Do you consider the morning after pill homicide?

When do YOU consider it life?

 

[The Man]

Why do you refuse to answer?

Do you consider the morning after pill homicide?

When do YOU consider it life?

Do you consider the morning after pill homicide?

Why didnt you just ask that to begin with...rather than attempt to trick someone into a camparitive

 

[The Man]

*Comparative*

I cant edit

 

[Tim]

still no answer?