Republicans reject report on cost of health care repeal

[Tim]

Republicans reject report on cost of health care repeal

Rescinding the federal law to overhaul the health-care system, the first objective of House Republicans who ascended to power this week, would ratchet up the federal deficit by about $230 billion over the next decade and leave 32 million more Americans uninsured, according to congressional budget analysts.
The rough estimate by the Congressional Budget Office also predicts that most Americans would pay more for private health insurance if the law were repealed. The 10-page forecast was delivered to House Speaker John A. Boehner (R-Ohio), installed a day earlier to shepherd the new GOP majority. He immediately dismissed it....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/06/AR2011010606159.html

Of course they reject it. They don't give a damn how many people it covers or how much money it saves. They want it gone, end of story.

 

[Tim]

from the article...

House Republicans countered with their own report, containing their portrayal of the financial effects of keeping the law intact. The report, filled with the incendiary language the GOP has adopted to discuss the law, is entitled: "Obama-care: A budget-busting, job-killing health care law" and features on its cover a gate padlocked with a thick chain.

:24: :24: and they expect us to take them seriously when they put out grade school crap like this?

 

[edgray]

the republicans, aside from being the biggest morons on the planet, are really just bunch of whining school kid bullies.

 

[Accountable]

It shouldn't be a federal program. Each State should be free to design their own or choose to have none at all.

 

[Tim]

It shouldn't be a federal program. Each State should be free to design their own or choose to have none at all.

Then that's the angle they should be working from, not "Obama-care: A budget-busting, job-killing health care law"

Again, what are they, grade school kids? Just look at the title of the report they are working from. First, the name of the law is not Obama Care. Second it saves federal tax dollars so it's hardly a budget buster and third, what jobs does it Kill?
How can they expect to be taken seriously with a idiotic report like that?
Go to ANY fortune 500 company and try to present a report like that and I guarantee it would be your last day at work.

How can you expect to be taken seriously when you can't even approach the subject like adults?

 

[wyatt earp]

If I work take care of my family and do everything I am supposed to, why should I have to give my money to help other people?

 

[Tim]

If I work take care of my family and do everything I am supposed to, why should I have to give my money to help other people?

Because you live in a community.

You CANNOT do everything on your own I don't care how much money you make. You benefit from the work of others.

Most people fail to realize that just about everything we do and have is because someone else contributed to the community.

 

[wyatt earp]

Because you live in a community.

You CANNOT do everything on your own I don't care how much money you make. You benefit from the work of others.

Most people fail to realize that just about everything we do and have is because someone else contributed to the community.

So you are saying everyone who receives something is contributing to the community? If I work and take care of my family financially, why should i have to pay for kids I didn't make?

 

[edgray]

So you are saying everyone who receives something is contributing to the community? If I work and take care of my family financially, why should i have to pay for kids I didn't make?

you already pay for police to protect them, schools to educate them, libraries to enrich their minds, fire service to tackle any fires that might threaten them... does that bother you too?

 

[wyatt earp]

you already pay for police to protect them, schools to educate them, libraries to enrich their minds, fire service to tackle any fires that might threaten them... does that bother you too?

I understand about community and how funds work, I have worked in law enforcement, and government. What I am saying is that if people aren't adding to the community and just taking away, why should we as citizens have to pay for them?

 

[edgray]

I understand about community and how funds work, I have worked in law enforcement, and government. What I am saying is that if people aren't adding to the community and just taking away, why should we as citizens have to pay for them?

those people are in the far minority tho.

 

[Tim]

So you are saying everyone who receives something is contributing to the community? If I work and take care of my family financially, why should i have to pay for kids I didn't make?

No, not everyone contributes to the community. I don't think you could ever find a Utopian community where everyone is equal and does their fair share of work.

The problem here is that those who are leaching off the system are held up to be a major problem where in actuality they are in the small minority. To be a healthy society we need to find ways to limit the ways people can "scam" the system but we need to accept that it will never be fully eliminated. So if we can drop the "welfare queen" strawman from the discussion, we can actually have an intelligent discussion about it.

Now like I said earlier, your tax dollars don't just go to those scamming the system. They are needed to provide for the commons. Like the roads you use to get to work Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956. There is no way you could build and manage all the roads you need each day. It took the community to contribute to the commons to make that happen. It's the same thing for many things you have and enjoy every day.
Also look at things like the Rural Electrification Act, of 1936. Without our tax dollars paying to distribute electric distribution lines to the rural areas of this country, they would still be in the dark ages. This is something that private corporation would never have been able to do. That is why it was up to the community to take care of.
Now lets look at something a little closer to the topic... New medical breakthroughs and medicines. Did you know that the MAJORITY of new medicines and medical breakthroughs were funded by our tax dollars? When you see a news story about a medical breakthrough, you can bet that it was funded with our tax dollars...

Shall I go on?

 

[wyatt earp]

those people are in the far minority tho.

Are they really? Prime example is there really no jobs out there, or are the jobs available ones people do not want to do? Why should I have to pay for someone to sit on unemployment for 99 weeks? Pay for them to go back to school or job training? I work, I paid for my school? I take care of my family and pay all my bills, I volunteer at a nursing home, why should I pay and other people are not expected to?

 

[edgray]

Are they really? Prime example is there really no jobs out there, or are the jobs available ones people do not want to do? Why should I have to pay for someone to sit on unemployment for 99 weeks? Pay for them to go back to school or job training? I work, I paid for my school? I take care of my family and pay all my bills, I volunteer at a nursing home, why should I pay and other people are not expected to?

yes it is. Certain areas there might be more, like where I live unemployment is over 30%, nationally however it's only 14% or so. In the US you're at less then 10% unemployment. And if you think ALL of that 10% are scroungers then you have a pretty darn low opinion of your fellow citizens.

the other side of course is that they would do the same for you.

Futhermore, I think personally you're looking at it completely wrong. You're paying for the system to be there should the worst happen to you. And it can, believe me. So you pay into a pool to keep a safety net there for when times get tough. Everybody contributes at some point in their lives. Most people for the majority of it. Most people hit hard times or another throughout their lives and these systems are there to ease it slightly.

This is the same with healthcare, you're not paying for anyone else, you're paying to have a system in place as and when you need it. It not only works out cheaper this way, but it's a much nicer system. I mean, would you really want to see a low income family who's breadwinner has just lost their job due to a factory closure be kicked out on the street, hungry, and unable to get medical treatment?

 

[Alien Allen]

over here the employee pays nothing

zero, zip, nada

The employer foots the entire bill. In principle that is. Actually like any tax on a business the cost gets passed on to the customers. Once you have enough people laid off then they have drained the fund and the govt supplements. But your rates go up. You could have had a 50 year old business that never had a person put in a claim and thus put a ton of money into the account.

 

[edgray]

over here the employee pays nothing

zero, zip, nada

The employer foots the entire bill. In principle that is. Actually like any tax on a business the cost gets passed on to the customers. Once you have enough people laid off then they have drained the fund and the govt supplements. But your rates go up. You could have had a 50 year old business that never had a person put in a claim and thus put a ton of money into the account.

well they pay with their manpower. without them working, the money wouldn't be paid.

 

[wyatt earp]

yes it is. Certain areas there might be more, like where I live unemployment is over 30%, nationally however it's only 14% or so. In the US you're at less then 10% unemployment. And if you think ALL of that 10% are scroungers then you have a pretty darn low opinion of your fellow citizens.

the other side of course is that they would do the same for you.

Futhermore, I think personally you're looking at it completely wrong. You're paying for the system to be there should the worst happen to you. And it can, believe me. So you pay into a pool to keep a safety net there for when times get tough. Everybody contributes at some point in their lives. Most people for the majority of it. Most people hit hard times or another throughout their lives and these systems are there to ease it slightly.

This is the same with healthcare, you're not paying for anyone else, you're paying to have a system in place as and when you need it. It not only works out cheaper this way, but it's a much nicer system. I mean, would you really want to see a low income family who's breadwinner has just lost their job due to a factory closure be kicked out on the street, hungry, and unable to get medical treatment?

Oh really than who foots the bill for all the illegal aliens who flood our hospitals and clinics? Who pays for all the people without insurance? Who pays for all the people in poverty that use these systems but do not pay? Why can an illegal immigrant walk into a hospital and get free care, and I am expected to pay, and even if I can't afford it they will go after me and sue me? If I do the right thing and you do the right thing, why do we have to suffer for the people doing the wrong thing?

 

[edgray]

Oh really than who foots the bill for all the illegal aliens who flood our hospitals and clinics? Who pays for all the people without insurance? Who pays for all the people in poverty that use these systems but do not pay? Why can an illegal immigrant walk into a hospital and get free care, and I am expected to pay, and even if I can't afford it they will go after me and sue me? If I do the right thing and you do the right thing, why do we have to suffer for the people doing the wrong thing?

well the point is you don't have to suffer at all, do you? I mean, look at it like this: you guys pay over 7000$ per year per person on private healthcare, whereas in, say, the UK, the cost is only about 2000GBP per person per year for state healthcare. So you'd be saving a fortune from the start.

Illegal immigrants are a drop in the ocean compared to the money you are putting in the pockets of the fat cats who run private insurance scams.

By the way, your new system doesn't cover illegal immigrants. So that's not even worth mentioning.

Also, I don't believe there are as many people who don't contribute as you think there are. Most unemployed people in these economic times would kill for a job, but they simply aren't out there. Why should they be punished as victims of a system that you're benefitting from?

 

[Tim]

Oh really than who foots the bill for all the illegal aliens who flood our hospitals and clinics? Who pays for all the people without insurance? Who pays for all the people in poverty that use these systems but do not pay? Why can an illegal immigrant walk into a hospital and get free care, and I am expected to pay, and even if I can't afford it they will go after me and sue me? If I do the right thing and you do the right thing, why do we have to suffer for the people doing the wrong thing?

So would you prefer that hospitals refuse life saving care to those who cannot afford to pay?

You need to be able to answer that question before we can move onto the issue of how to pay for it.

 

[wyatt earp]

well the point is you don't have to suffer at all, do you? I mean, look at it like this: you guys pay over 7000$ per year per person on private healthcare, whereas in, say, the UK, the cost is only about 2000GBP per person per year for state healthcare. So you'd be saving a fortune from the start.

Illegal immigrants are a drop in the ocean compared to the money you are putting in the pockets of the fat cats who run private insurance scams.

By the way, your new system doesn't cover illegal immigrants. So that's not even worth mentioning.

Also, I don't believe there are as many people who don't contribute as you think there are. Most unemployed people in these economic times would kill for a job, but they simply aren't out there. Why should they be punished as victims of a system that you're benefitting from?

There are over 20 million illegal immigrants in the United States, how much do you think they cost the tx payers every year? Simple question, should I have to take money away from my family to pay for someone who is here illegally to get healthcare? Why should I be forced to buy state healthcare? Do you really want the government in charge of your health? Trust me I have been active duty military and the reserves, and in no way do you want the government responsible for your health. Do you see what they deem acceptable in the military? Food, Shots? standards? Kinda takes away from the freedom thing huh?

I agree with regulations, over site and slight government involvement, but in essence every American should be free to protect, feed, and take care of themselves anyway that they feel fit. We have become a dependent society, and that is not what this country is supposed to be about, it is supposed to be about freedom.