thanks for clarifying
4 and 20 Blackbirds {Fall from the sky...}
- Thread starter Dana
- Start date
Something you might want to study further is the time line on the end times.
Whenever Jesus talked about the end times he always said the time was near. He even told Peter that it would come in his generation, and I doubt his generation lasted 2000 years.
I'm not mentioning this to be a smart ass, but these verses in the bible are always conveniently glossed over and dismissed. But I encourage you to look for yourself, you will see that the end times were predicted to come over 200 years ago by Jesus himself. So either they have come and gone, or they aren't coming, so you can relax.
You're quite welcome.
As an aside... to the readers of this thread... by no means am I some Bible thumping, spur of the moment wing-nut. I've been a Christian for a long time. My faith is usually kept in my back pocket, not thrown into the faces of others. I simply came across this thread and chose to share my opinion.
I've been waiting for you to show up.
I completely understand what you're saying, Tim. Sure glad you brought up the "time line" factor. Our time is not the same as the Lord's time (which I'm certain you're aware of). The entire oddity of the birds and the fish dying, are a sign of the times. I'm not living my life in a God fearing fashion, nor, one of dooms day. I'm simply keeping count of what was written and what has transpired in my life time. It's really interesting!
That's just a matter of interpretation. People find all sorts of things to back up their view in religion and politics when they twist vague statements around to mean one thing. Even if you do believe this thing was caused by god, it only represents virtually nothing compared to the amount of birds man and other animals kill.
Last edited by a moderator:
I completely agree... it is a matter of interpretation. Enters free will. You have the choice to "consider" the events or ignore them.
Many, many years ago, I had an opportunity to "test" the written word. The end result was what really cemented my swaying over to "Hmmm... there is some truth to this". If you care to know, just ask me, and I'll share the story.
(It will most likely be trivial to you, but it meant something to me... and still does.)
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]I've been waiting for you to show up.
I completely understand what you're saying, Tim. Sure glad you brought up the "time line" factor. Our time is not the same as the Lord's time (which I'm certain you're aware of). The entire oddity of the birds and the fish dying, are a sign of the times. I'm not living my life in a God fearing fashion, nor, one of dooms day. I'm simply keeping count of what was written and what has transpired in my life time. It's really interesting!
In Matthew 24:33, Jesus says, "even so you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, thisgeneration will not pass away until all these things take place."[/FONT]
Just to clarify a little... Like I have said before, I was born into a Christian family. We attended a bible thumping Baptist church. If there was any faith that took the end-times serious it was us. I don't think a week went by that we weren't talking about or discussing the rapture and the return of Christ. I was fully immersed and engaged in the conversation up until I was 18. Church 4 times a week (never missed) Baptist Christian school in my teens, the list can go on. Trust me, if there is anything that can be discussed when it comes to the end times, I have been over it 100 times already.
Over the years I have many legitimate questions (as a believer not as a skeptic) that couldn't be answered. Matthew 24:33 is one of them. Sure they danced around the question and would tell me to look into my heart and God would answer me. But the numerous questions were still there...
I would like to know, I thik we can learn from each others expereinces, often times something seemingly trivial happens to me, it is only when I speak to others of the passing that Ii learn that they too experienced similar, by all means tell your story via PM if you wish, I will say that all you disclose will be received in confidenceI completely agree... it is a matter of interpretation. Enters free will. You have the choice to "consider" the events or ignore them.
Many, many years ago, I had an opportunity to "test" the written word. The end result was what really cemented my swaying over to "Hmmm... there is some truth to this". If you care to know, just ask me, and I'll share the story.
(It will most likely be trivial to you, but it meant something to me... and still does.)
You're an intriguing one, aren't you.
Now you're gonna make me bust out my Bible in search of a few scriptures. (That's not a bad thing for me.) Or, maybe you know the chapter and verse, right off hand?
Jesus also said that no man will know the time of his second coming. (See, this is the shit that has confused people and turned them off to believing.)
i'm glad you found that because it confirms what's been going through my mind and that is there are mysterious animal dieoffs that happen regularly. they are usually isolated incidents and are most often identified as the result of extreme environmental stresses, especially toxins or disease.
that's life. it leads to death. mutate or die.
You're an intriguing one, aren't you.
Now you're gonna make me bust out my Bible in search of a few scriptures. (That's not a bad thing for me.) Or, maybe you know the chapter and verse, right off hand?
Jesus also said that no man will know the time of his second coming. (See, this is the shit that has confused people and turned them off to believing.)
You are right, Jesus also said that he didn't know the day or the hour of his return in Matthew 24:36, yet Jesus is God. He should know all. He was able to foretell his death, his resurrection, the rapture yet he doesn't know the day and hour? Why would he say day and hour instead of year or century?
Again, way too many questions to address. This is not something that casual observers can intelligently discuss by picking and choosing a few verses. This is the type of discussion that takes months of study and reading beforehand. There is a lot I have forgotten about, many questions unanswered....
clearly signs of modern amateur theologians taking ancient scriptures out of context to make them fit their warped triumphalist vision of reality and proselytic agenda. the prophesies of zephaniah were directed at a crumbling israelite kingdom that was about to be crushed by the babylonians.
the animal die offs are nothing new or unusual. most of them happen without any help from anything that humans did.
so what if the 'end' is near? bring it on! fry or fly -- everybody gets to make that choice by how we choose to live in this world.
My take on Jesus not knowing the day, or hour, at the time, was because he had not yet ascended.
Here's what Matthew 24:36 really says.
Matthew 24:36 (King James Version)
24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
I don't consider myself a casual observer, Tim. I, like you, am well versed in the Bible and the mysteries therein. I've got a few unanswered questions, myself... however, those unanswered questions do not stand in the way of my faith.
Last edited by a moderator:
I understand your point of view, I was there.
The unanswered questions aren't what led me to walk away from religion/faith/ or a belief in God.
There was only one question that changed my mind. And I have asked this question time and time again to believers and they never answer it truthfully.
Why do you believe what you do? If you were born in a different place to different parents, would you still believe what you do today?
If you were born into a Buddhist family, I seriously doubt you would be making the same arguments today. So that tells me that God is NOT an universal truth. It's cultural.
And who are we to decide which culture got it right? We only believe our is because that's what we know and accept. Sure, we can learn about other cultures later in life, but you can never truly escape your core beliefs that were ingrained into you when you were very young.
So can you honestly answer the question, Why Christianity?
It's another conspiracy, man...
lolol
lolol
Last edited by a moderator:
I hear ya on the walking away. I was like you... when the church doors were open, we were there. I left the fellowship not because of faith, but, because of other reasons.
To answer your question, why Christianity? Because of one verse... plain and simple. 1 Corinthians 13:13. "Now abide, faith, hope and love... but, the greatest of these, is love"
To me, Christianity, or any other "religion", should be based on love, and love alone. It's so easy to have a loving nature towards society, IF you allow yourself to. Sadly enough, I feel that most people find it easier to be sour pusses towards society.
Bottom line... love conquers all, and it truly does.
love and compassion are basic themes in the Bhuddist world, but to the best of knowledge Bhuddists live by a code taught by a teacher, there is no worship and commandment - i find that easier to reconcile than Christianity, but i do agree Love is the basis for all things, without we are lostI hear ya on the walking away. I was like you... when the church doors were open, we were there. I left the fellowship not because of faith, but, because of other reasons.
To answer your question, why Christianity? Because of one verse... plain and simple. 1 Corinthians 13:13. "Now abide, faith, hope and love... but, the greatest of these, is love"
To me, Christianity, or any other "religion", should be based on love, and love alone. It's so easy to have a loving nature towards society, IF you allow yourself to. Sadly enough, I feel that most people find it easier to be sour pusses towards society.
Bottom line... love conquers all, and it truly does.
I hear ya on the walking away. I was like you... when the church doors were open, we were there. I left the fellowship not because of faith, but, because of other reasons.
To answer your question, why Christianity? Because of one verse... plain and simple. 1 Corinthians 13:13. "Now abide, faith, hope and love... but, the greatest of these, is love"
To me, Christianity, or any other "religion", should be based on love, and love alone. It's so easy to have a loving nature towards society, IF you allow yourself to. Sadly enough, I feel that most people find it easier to be sour pusses towards society.
Bottom line... love conquers all, and it truly does.
I understand what you are saying... Read I Corinthians 13:1-13 It really puts your verse into perspective and is a lovely passage.
But why not Buddhism? Surely Buddhism is a more loving religion.
But then you can ask the question, why any religion?
I'm an atheist, not an agnostic, but an atheist. Yet love is very much a part of my life.
I can honestly say that my wife and I are deeply in love and have been since we met. We are unlike the vast majority of couples in our bond. There is no infidelity, no fighting, no sarcasm or any other crap to divide us. The absolute love and devotion to my children can't be dismissed. I am there for them every night. I spend time with them, teach them, play with them and love them with all my heart. They are growing up in a family that loves them and it will show as they become adults. Hopefully they will pass that love on to their children as I know they will. I come from a loving family and there is still a connection between us.
And I could go into my love for my neighbors and fellow man but my caring for others makes me nothing more than a flaming liberal in others eyes... you know, those die hard republican Christians that think everyone should just do for themselves. (not a lot of love there IMO)
Yet this is all without religion... So how does religion = love, or I guess the better question is, since religion doesn't make loving people, why is it important to you? Or is it just a prerequisite and not the reason you are religious?