Your God is your ultimate barrier to finding the Godhead.

[Greatest I am]

Your God is your ultimate barrier to finding the Godhead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Eoxt1hRm9c&feature=fvst

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU

The Jews, the true authority and interpreters of Eden, sawmankind’s gain of knowledge as an elevation in their struggle to understandGod. Israel [as understood by Hebrews, = he strives with God]. Strive can be readas to mean to work either with or against. Jews equated God more with a sourceof knowledge than a source of command that must be obeyed. This is shown byarchetypal Moses ignoring God’s law of divorce.

Being a Gnostic Christian, my view goes to following theJewish view for two basic reasons. They have more authority over the O. T. thanChristians and secondly, they give our creation, beginning and God a happyending for our passage through Eden. True evil had yet to manifest itself tothat point in time.

Christians on the other hand, with their view of Eden asman’s fall, cannot see a perfect heaven without evil. God fails on this issueand admits it by casting Satan out.

Christians cannot see a perfect Eden on earth without evil.God fails on this issue and admits it by casting Adam and Eve out.

In Noah’s day, God repented from his sins. He missed themark and admits it by destroying most of mankind and animal kind with animmoral genocide. God fails on thisissue as well.

Did the Jews win in their striving against God to a pointwhere they could judge him?
I think so thanks to Moses and the divorce laws.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI

We cannot today know why Christianity reversed some of theJewish thinking when embracing the O. T. and it’s God and going from man’selevation to man’s fall.

Should Christians consider following that good Jewishexample and do as other cultures have done as shown by Joseph Campbell and seeka messiah the way most Jews do?

If not, then Christians will have to learn to live in aworld where their God can be accurately described like this.

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the mostunpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust,unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; amisogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal,pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Dawkins and most Jews call the bible fiction. Jews can thusget around this accurate description of God by just admitting the truth. It isall myth and metaphor. Literalist and fundamental Christians cannot and I thinkthat over time this rather ugly God will kill Christianity.

At one time the Christian God of the gaps may have had arole to play for us but man has moved on. Christians should perhaps do the sameand seek their true God.

Regards
DL

 

[Minor Axis]

You are only tearing down Christian views. Unless I missed it or don't understand it, you should talk more about why these views interfer with seeing the Godhead as you do. Unless you saying all counter views to yours, cloud the individuals vision of the truth? If so, I'd counter an idea is an idea. Even if raised with one set of beliefs, the ability to see counter views has to do with how open your mind is. If not, maybe you can clarify your post so I can understand your point.

 

[Stone]

Your God is your ultimate barrier to finding the Godhead.
.............
Regards
DL

Great........'my god is better than your god' and you'll prove it by quoting a mythologist and an atheist using incredulous logic and obscure theology.

All I see you doing is pissing off the Christian element and suspect the atheist crowd that disavows all concepts of a supreme being is reading this thread rather skeptically.

Are you going to the agnostic for the 'win'?

 

[TenaciousDave]

 

[Stone]

...............................
Christians on the other hand, with their view of Eden asman’s fall, cannot see a perfect heaven without evil. God fails on this issueand admits it by casting Satan out.
....................................

Your logic breaks down by equating Eden to Heaven.

 

[Greatest I am]

You are only tearing down Christian views.

Tha is my hope yes.

Unless I missed it or don't understand it, you should talk more about why these views interfer with seeing the Godhead as you do.

Yes. I did not want to make the O P too long as that inhibits many from even reading it.

If one is idol worshiping the way Christians do for their God in a book, they will not know that the true Godhead has become civilized and is not the genocidal son murderer that they worship. They are on their knees to it when they should be forcing it to it's knees. They wish to be reborn instead of just growing up.

Unless you saying all counter views to yours, cloud the individuals vision of the truth?

Every individual bases his truth on what he has accepted as truth. I am pointing out that one will not seek truth if he thinks he has it all in his bible or holy book. All my view says is that one should always seek further than what is known.

If God is a teacher, so to speak, you will know that a teacher wants the student to accept his views yes, but he will also want the student to add to the body of knowledge so that the teacher himself can also move on to the greater truth. Plato and others indicate that the first cause should be sought. To settle for a God of the gaps hinders this search.

If so, I'd counter an idea is an idea. Even if raised with one set of beliefs, the ability to see counter views has to do with how open your mind is. If not, maybe you can clarify your post so I can understand your point.

You have it right. That is why I added the Jewish versus Christian take of Eden and am asking Christians which take makes more sense. As a Gnostic, I like to try to see things from every angle.

I do recognize that there is information lacking from the O P and thank you for getting it out of me.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Great........'my god is better than your god' and you'll prove it by quoting a mythologist and an atheist using incredulous logic and obscure theology.

All I see you doing is pissing off the Christian element and suspect the atheist crowd that disavows all concepts of a supreme being is reading this thread rather skeptically.

Are you going to the agnostic for the 'win'?

As a Gnostic Christian, I seek a better God as a matter of course and think all who have a god in a book that they idol worship should do the same. My God is no better than anyone else's unless others agree with that God should remain a flexible notion whose attributes can be changed and modernized. God, like man, must either evolve or die.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I see that you did not quite get the O P either.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Your logic breaks down by equating Eden to Heaven.

I did not except perhaps in your mind.
I just showed it as another fail.

Spiritually or archetypally thinking, the writers may well have just wanted to show it as two different (homes), so to speak.

They saw Eden as a rite of passage and perhaps, since to them is not an evil character, they just wanted to show what our mind set should be when leaving our homes. One of rebellion against the status quo and a desire to improve it.

Regards
DL

 

[Panacea]

Surely any views, when inflexible enough, interfere with the acquisition of knowledge outside the realm of those views.

 

[Stone]

As a Gnostic Christian, I seek a better God as a matter of course and think all who have a god in a book that they idol worship should do the same. My God is no better than anyone else's unless others agree with that God should remain a flexible notion whose attributes can be changed and modernized. God, like man, must either evolve or die.

Regards
DL

You do realize that's mostly nonsence when considering the concept of a supreme being to start with?
In your 'reality', your godhead might be a neighbor.

 

[Stone]

I did not except perhaps in your mind.
I just showed it as another fail.

Spiritually or archetypally thinking, the writers may well have just wanted to show it as two different (homes), so to speak.

They saw Eden as a rite of passage and perhaps, since to them is not an evil character, they just wanted to show what our mind set should be when leaving our homes. One of rebellion against the status quo and a desire to improve it.

Regards
DL

I did not except perhaps in your mind.
I just showed it as another fail.

No, logically, you didn't and that's what I'm pointing out.

Spiritually or archetypally thinking, the writers may well have just wanted to show it as two different (homes), so to speak.

They saw Eden as a rite of passage and perhaps, since to them is not an evil character, they just wanted to show what our mind set should be when leaving our homes. One of rebellion against the status quo and a desire to improve it.

Like I posted, you originally equated Eden with Heaven.
Now you seem to have recanted that since I pointed out the conflict.

There are a lot of contradictions in the Christian Bible when taken literally, but I see you making errors in associations at the same time.

 

[Stone]

Surely any views, when inflexible enough, interfere with the acquisition of knowledge outside the realm of those views.

That sounds reasonable and logical.
I see interpreting the Bible in a literal fashion usually one that presents a bias to start with.
Bias is the resistance that interferes with finding 'truths' that exist elsewhere.
Radical fundamentalists exemplify the trait, imo.
But there are other views to bias.
GIA also exemplifies a radical bias by his fixation on interpreting the Christian Bible to his own theological advantage. Even worse, he uses hate to leverage his bias.

I've read the thoughts of others on gnostic beliefs and until now not seen such hatred for Christianity from them.

Until I started reading GIA's posts, I wasn't aware of the radicalism and hatred that existed in the gnostic movement.
I suspect hate exists to some degree in most religions and belief systems.
Hope GIA isn't representative of most gnostics.....too much hate for good mental health, imo.

 

[Panacea]

Whenever I see the word truth and god put together, I suspect there may be radical bias. I don't think it's a stretch to say we don't really have the truth about god, with or without radical bias...probably best not to assume it.

 

[Stone]

Whenever I see the word truth and god put together, I suspect there may be radical bias. I don't think it's a stretch to say we don't really have the truth about god, with or without radical bias...probably best not to assume it.

Whenever I see the word truth and god put together, I suspect there may be radical bias.

I do think there are well meaning people that try to associate the two, but the reality is man is selfish and seldom does much without self interest being an issue. Those that make the most noise get the most attention.
I have my own beliefs, but many questions at the same time that I realize can't be explained outside of theological terms.... that I have trouble relating to. And theological debates trade views as many times as a new interpretation or new source is considered.

When you think about it....death is the only resolution for an answer, no matter Christian, Islamic, Agnostic, Atheist or whatever, because at that moment, you're either 'golden' in your belief, or you're 'toast'

 

[Panacea]

It can be said it's wishful thinking to assume even death will enlighten us lol

 

[Greatest I am]

Surely any views, when inflexible enough, interfere with the acquisition of knowledge outside the realm of those views.

Absolutely right.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

You do realize that's mostly nonsence when considering the concept of a supreme being to start with?
In your 'reality', your godhead might be a neighbor.

And what is wrong with that. Then I would have to love my neighbour as myself and do unto him what I would like done to me.

A philosophy that you have yet to practice.

If Christians followed those rules, then women and Gays would have had full equality many years ago the same way Gnostics did.

Regards
DL

 

[Stone]

It can be said it's wishful thinking to assume even death will enlighten us lol

You'll never know for certain, at least not in this reality

 

[Greatest I am]

I have my own beliefs, but many questions at the same time that I realize can't be explained outside of theological terms.... that I have trouble relating to. And theological debates trade views as many times as a new interpretation or new source is considered.

What is your belief and what are a couple of things that you cannot explain outside of theological terms?

Regards
DL