You have free will but are only free to follow the rules.

[Greatest I am]

You have free will but are only free to follow the rules.

Is that really freedom?
The only freedom we have is to follow the rules or break them.
No other freedom comes to mind.
This would include either secular rules or religious rules.
Rules of physics and nature are understood.
This free will that you have is freedom that you take.
It is not given to you.
Freedom is not something that can be given unless it is first taken from you.
If we are in God’s image and He in ours, then is He hampered by this same condition of only being able to follow the rules or break them?

He seems to be.

Regards
DL

 

[Kyle B]

How is this not freedom?

We as humans can do anything we wish. We choose whether or not we want to abide by rules or not. That's complete freedom.

 

[Peter Parka]

I can jump off a cliff if I want, cant blame anyone when I burst my guts and die on the rocks below though. I'm still free to do it though.

 

[Accountable]

You have free will but are only free to follow the rules.

I disagree

Is that really freedom?
The only freedom we have is to follow the rules or break them.
No other freedom comes to mind.

O! Ye of so little Imagination! That's like saying we only have the choice to stand or fall. We have infinite choices of how to act within the rules, and just as many ways in which to break them. I'm sure you've been creative with your rule-breaking, haven't you?

*snip*

This free will that you have is freedom that you take.
It is not given to you.

From whom to you take it? Who possesses (or possessed) your will?
Your will is your own. You have but to exercise it.

Freedom is not something that can be given unless it is first taken from you.

Didn't you just say the opposite thing?? :confused

If we are in God’s image and He in ours, then is He hampered by this same condition of only being able to follow the rules or break them?

A parent's child is made in the image of the parent, yet the child has different rules than the parent. Dad can go to be any time he likes, but kiddo's bedtime is 8 sharp.

It seems that you want free will without the consequences that balances it. Kinda like a kid that wants what he wants when he wants it, but then gets mad when he gets punished.

 

[Azazel]

It seems that you want free will without the consequences that balances it.

 

[Greatest I am]

How is this not freedom?

We as humans can do anything we wish. We choose whether or not we want to abide by rules or not. That's complete freedom.

As I said we do have freedom to follow the rules or not.

Not following the rules brings consequences. These consequences effect our freedom to choose.

We chose to accept the consequences or not.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I can jump off a cliff if I want, cant blame anyone when I burst my guts and die on the rocks below though. I'm still free to do it though.

As I said, you do have free will. In this case you reap the consequences of breaking the rule that says chose life.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I disagree
O! Ye of so little Imagination! That's like saying we only have the choice to stand or fall. We have infinite choices of how to act within the rules, and just as many ways in which to break them. I'm sure you've been creative with your rule-breaking, haven't you?
From whom to you take it? Who possesses (or possessed) your will?
Your will is your own. You have but to exercise it.
Didn't you just say the opposite thing?? :confused
A parent's child is made in the image of the parent, yet the child has different rules than the parent. Dad can go to be any time he likes, but kiddo's bedtime is 8 sharp.

It seems that you want free will without the consequences that balances it..

No.

I recognize that unless rules are followed, there are consequences.

Consequences seem to remove true freedom of choice.

As stated above, one may chose to ignore rules of life and chose death.

Regards
DL

 

[Accountable]

No.

I recognize that unless rules are followed, there are consequences.

Consequences seem to remove true freedom of choice.

As stated above, one may chose to ignore rules of life and chose death.

Regards
DL

You didn't address my other points:

This free will that you have is freedom that you take.
It is not given to you.

From whom to you take it? Who possesses (or possessed) your will?
Your will is your own. You have but to exercise it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If we are in God’s image and He in ours, then is He hampered by this same condition of only being able to follow the rules or break them?

A parent's child is made in the image of the parent, yet the child has different rules than the parent. Dad can go to be any time he likes, but kiddo's bedtime is 8 sharp.

 

[darkcgi]

I have a hard time following the rulz.
I ll admit its not working to well for me either.
but yet i keep doing whats up wit dat.

 

[Accountable]

No.

I recognize that unless rules are followed, there are consequences.

Consequences seem to remove true freedom of choice.

Every decision, every action, every inaction has consequences, both good and bad.

 

[Kyle B]

Consequences seem to remove true freedom of choice.

I still have the freedom to choose, regardless of consequences.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

I think we should have freedom--as long as it doesn't directly infringe upon the rights and freedoms of others, against their will.

Any mostly we do have these freedoms, but some stupid things, like gay marriage, or abortion, we still don't have freedom for. I am sure, however, eventually, we will.

 

[darkcgi]

I still dont understand why i cant
pull my penis out in public
Its mine i should be able to look at it when ever i want

 

[Greatest I am]

You didn't address my other points:



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatest I am
This free will that you have is freedom that you take.
It is not given to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Accountable
From whom to you take it? Who possesses (or possessed) your will?
Your will is your own. You have but to exercise it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You have answered for me. Of course it is within you. This is where you take it from.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatest I am
If we are in God’s image and He in ours, then is He hampered by this same condition of only being able to follow the rules or break them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Accountable
A parent's child is made in the image of the parent, yet the child has different rules than the parent. Dad can go to be any time he likes, but kiddo's bedtime is 8 sharp.

Let's stick to meaningful rules.

Do you make a set of moral rules for yourself and a different one for your children.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I have a hard time following the rulz.
I ll admit its not working to well for me either.
but yet i keep doing whats up wit dat.

S & M.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I still have the freedom to choose, regardless of consequences.

Sure. You choose the consequence. It is still an inhibitor to a truly un-coerced free choice.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I think we should have freedom--as long as it doesn't directly infringe upon the rights and freedoms of others, against their will.

Any mostly we do have these freedoms, but some stupid things, like gay marriage, or abortion, we still don't have freedom for. I am sure, however, eventually, we will.

Through secular governments for sure. Never through religion unless they scrap their WORD.

That is why, as we speak, secularism is winning the fight for hearts and minds.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I still dont understand why i cant
pull my penis out in public
Its mine i should be able to look at it when ever i want

It is because of the consequences.

Not yours but for the people who see you. They might die of laughter.

Regards
DL

 

[Abcinthia]

We do this arguement in Psychology, are humans really agents of our own free will or is everything we do determined by another force (eg biology, our environment etc) . It becomes a quite tedious and circular argument at times.

I think we have free will. We can abide by rules but we have a choice. I know choices are deterministic but sometimes those choices can be truely random and not based on any determined choices, thus it's free will.