Why does God create sub standard souls?

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Greatest I am

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Why does God create sub standard souls?

In the beginning, God judged his creations good. Gen 1; 31

Scripture says that God is perfect and that his works are as well. Matt 5; 48, Deu 32; 4
Many do not think that things are particularly good or perfect yet scripture says they must be. Matt 7; 18

You will likely agree with those who say that there is more evil than good in the world. I tend to disagree but few see things as I do.
Many think that things are bad but that they are going exactly the way God wants and if you are in this camp, I thank you for your opinion and discard it as quite illogical.

In fact, if you look at the system God created from afar, you would have to say, if theist opinion is true, that God has screwed up fairly badly because more of the souls he is reported to love, go to hell rather than heaven. You might also wonder why God could not control heaven when only the angels were there and why he also lost control of the earth and had to use genocide on man in Noah’s day. God, after all, is supposed to be master of all, yet things do not go his way.

This observation of our system being corrupted, that you likely see, contradicts scripture and God’s judgment of good, which is upgraded to perfect. Deu 32; 4

The logic trail of the scriptures quoted says that the initial perfection or good that God created will maintain itself in that condition and pass it up over time. It cannot backslide.


It happens that some have asked themselves this before. A group of Jews whose culture was instrumental in shaping Christian belief. Scripture is based on their theories of God. I do not know if you would give them regard for a higher insight because of that but I give you this link to help jog the mind. I would not call it entertaining so much as enlightening. In fact, if you are not disturbed by it you will not likely be able to contribute a sound answer to this post. Unfortunately, I do not have the complete series but I do have the pertinent part. They found that God was guilty of abandoning them.
It appears that God has also abandoned the rest of us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI

For those who think that God should not be judged, I offer this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU

Adults can and should judge God’s performance.

As bad as things were for the Jews in the holocaust, I would remind you that about 16,000 of us starve to death daily while God, as in WWII, does nothing. This about equals in one year the number of Jews that were exterminated. We have been losing that many for some years now.
----------------------------------------------
Who is correct?

God, who judged all things good or perfect.
Or.
Most theists, who think that things are not good or perfect and that they will not get better till end time.

As a bonus question, why can God not produce one obviously good man without pestering a virgin and why does he keep producing sub standard souls or does he make them as perfect as scripture says?


Regards
DL
 
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cam elle toe

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He doesnt "keep producing them"...they are reincarnating, and He gave us free will to do with our lives as we will.

Its not up to Him to save us...its up to US to save us.

Its not God that has screwed up...its us that has screwed up what He has given us, and its up to US to fix it...not Him.

We dont jump in and fix every little problem our ADULT children come to us with..its up to them as adults to take responsibility for their actions, and I believe its the same in our relationship with God.
 

BornReady

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its up to US to save us

That's the spirit we need. God isn't going to control our population. God isn't going to feed starving children in Africa. God isn't going to solve our energy crisis. God isn't going to stop our wars. If WE don't do these things then they aren't going to get done.
 
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Dana

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He doesnt "keep producing them"...they are reincarnating, and He gave us free will to do with our lives as we will.

Its not up to Him to save us...its up to US to save us.

Its not God that has screwed up...its us that has screwed up what He has given us, and its up to US to fix it...not Him.

We dont jump in and fix every little problem our ADULT children come to us with..its up to them as adults to take responsibility for their actions, and I believe its the same in our relationship with God.
:clap:clap
 

cam elle toe

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That's the spirit we need. God isn't going to control our population. God isn't going to feed starving children in Africa. God isn't going to solve our energy crisis. God isn't going to stop our wars. If WE don't do these things then they aren't going to get done.

:clap:clap


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*donations can be made at the door, and thankyou*

* all proceeds go to the cam foundation of looking after #1*
 

Minor Axis

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This is GIA's continuing campaign to debunk scripture, nothing more. My guess is that he agrees with most of the sentiment posted in the replies, especially "we (humans) save ourselves". My version is that we make the Earth and our lives on it, what it is, not God.

I believe a primary error is thinking that everything you have has been given to you by an intelligent deity as if you are being rewarded for good behavior. While it is possible, I see no reason to believe that version.

Question: If scripture is debunked does scripture have any value?
If so, what kind of value- Factual historical value (no), deity-relationship value (no), standards to live by value (maybe), any other value? I would suggest if anything, scripture provides moral food for thought and that is about all. Some of the stories in the Bible which I have described in other threads are pretty bad, illustrating a primitive concept of mortal-divine relationship, really no different than idol worship and blood sacrifice to appease the god(s).
 
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mazHur

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there are no sub-standard souls in this world..
Hitler wasted his time researching for superior race and ended up down the gutter!
All humans are equal.....except in learning!
 

Greatest I am

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He doesnt "keep producing them"...they are reincarnating, and He gave us free will to do with our lives as we will.

Its not up to Him to save us...its up to US to save us.

Its not God that has screwed up...its us that has screwed up what He has given us, and its up to US to fix it...not Him.

We dont jump in and fix every little problem our ADULT children come to us with..its up to them as adults to take responsibility for their actions, and I believe its the same in our relationship with God.

I agree that it is all up to man.

Our views on free will and where they come from are not the same.
God’s free will of --------Do it my way or burn forever is not free will at all. It is a threat.
He also reneges on his word. I call that a lie.

Free will God style.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_709983&feature=iv&v=aUtSM2oVy_E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_180871&feature=iv&v=Nv9IvCpiHxA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_511982&feature=iv&v=H0wSjJAsrAk

If God gave a hoot about the free will that He supposedly gave us, He sure is an Indian giver all over the O T where He tramples all over man’s free will to live, as He went about killing us at Sodom and using genocide on us in Noah‘s day.
God is quite the immoral -------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78H-tRFShiY

A sub standard God who makes sub standard souls. Oh well.
I guess that you would not believe these. Right?

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
To be true, God as the good tree would have to produce good fruit. Right?

Souls then cannot be corrupt. Right?

Regards
DL
 

Greatest I am

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This is GIA's continuing campaign to debunk scripture, nothing more. My guess is that he agrees with most of the sentiment posted in the replies, especially "we (humans) save ourselves". My version is that we make the Earth and our lives on it, what it is, not God.

I believe a primary error is thinking that everything you have has been given to you by an intelligent deity as if you are being rewarded for good behavior. While it is possible, I see no reason to believe that version.

Question: If scripture is debunked does scripture have any value?
If so, what kind of value- Factual historical value (no), deity-relationship value (no), standards to live by value (maybe), any other value? I would suggest if anything, scripture provides moral food for thought and that is about all. Some of the stories in the Bible which I have described in other threads are pretty bad, illustrating a primitive concept of mortal-divine relationship, really no different than idol worship and blood sacrifice to appease the god(s).

Myths, like fairy tales are quite useful as teaching tools.
The bible is a fairy tale for adults but unfortunately, adults who think they are to be read literally do not see their value and end up believing in fantasy and magic.
That kills any real understanding of the morals of the myths.

Regards
DL
 

StanJon

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Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
To be true, God as the good tree would have to produce good fruit. Right?

Souls then cannot be corrupt. Right?

Regards
DL

You are wrong. What the scripture is talking about is the fruits of the spirit..
Galatians 5:22-23..but the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
 

TommyTooter

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if i may stick my nose into what is clearly an old discussion, there can be no standard without sub-standard, no good without evil, no genius without ignorance.

all life is rigged to flow toward order or chaos. it's the way things are. how they got that way is beyond our ability to comprehend and conjecture on the nature of an infinite, omnipotent, omniscient being should always stay friendly because it is only a waste of time and energy.

might as well keep it upbeat.
 

mazHur

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Taiesin knew all about standards as far back as 6th century!!

Poem for the wind
By Taliesin
(6th Century)

English version by
Robert Williams

Guess who it is.
Created before the Flood.
A creature strong,
without flesh, without bone,
without veins, without blood,
without head and without feet.
It will not be older, it will not be younger,
than it was in the beginning.
There will not come from his design
fear or death.
He has no wants
from creatures.
Great God! the sea whitens
when it comes from the beginning.
Great his beauties,
the one that made him.
He in the field, he in the wood,
without hand and without foot.
Without old age, without age.
Without the most jealous destiny
and he is coeval
with the five periods of the five ages.
And also is older,
though there be five hundred thousand years.
And he is as wide
as the face of the earth,
and he was not born,
and he has not been seen.
He on sea, he on land,
he sees not, he is not seen.
He is not sincere,
he will not come when it is wished.
He on land, he on sea,
he is indispensable,
he is unconfined,
he is unequal.
He from four regions,
he will not be according to counsel.
He commences his journey
from above the stone of marble.
He is loud-voiced, he is mute.
He is uncourteous.
He is vehement, he is bold,
when he glances over the land.
He is mute, he is loud-voiced.
He is blustering.
Greatest his banner
on the face of the earth.
He is good, he is bad,
he is not bright,
he is not manifest,
for the sight does not see him.
He is bad, he is good.
He is yonder, he is here,
he will disorder.
He will not repair what he does
and be sinless.
He is wet, he is dry,
he comes frequently
from the heat of the sun and the coldness of the moon.
 

Dana

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Substandard according to who? are we talking killers, rapists and abusers or just people in general?
 

BornReady

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Not that it matters. But actually a good tree can bring forth bad fruit. If you don't believe me, try planting a seed from the next apple you buy in the store and see what you get.
 

mazHur

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Not that it matters. But actually a good tree can bring forth bad fruit. If you don't believe me, try planting a seed from the next apple you buy in the store and see what you get.


but.............then why does a black hen also lays white eggs??;)
 
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