Who says our founding fathers weren't Christians?

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SgtSpike

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Who says our founding fathers weren't Christians?
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When people were talking about founding America as an independant country, a verse
that was referred to was Isaiah 33:22:
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; it is
He who will save us."
That is why the three branches of government were formed, to follow those three
elements. They believed these were the essential parts of the civil magestrate.
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The second-best selling book in the American colonies (the Bible was #1) was the
New England Primer. It was the book from which we taught Americans to read and
write. It would be introduced to children at the same age as first grade is now.
In the book, they taught the basics, such as the alphabet to children. But they
defined the alphabet like this:
A - In Adam's Fall, We sinned all.
B - Heaven to find, The Bible Mind.
C - Christ Crucified, for Sinners Died.
D - The Deluge Drowned, The Earth Around.
E - Elijah hid, By Ravens fed.
F - The judgement made, Felix afraid.
And then they taught them big words, like fornication, edification, gratification.
Then they taught them lessons:
- Pray to God
- Love God
- Fear God
- Serve God
- Take not God's Name in vain
- Do not swear
- Do not steal
- Cheat not in your play
- Play not with bad boys
- Call no ill names
- Use no ill words
- Tell no lies
- Hate lies
- Speak the Truth
- Spend your Time well
- Love your School
- Mind your book
- Strive to learn
- Be not a dunce
And then, questions:
- Who is the oldest man? Methuselah
- Who is the strongest man? Samson
- Who saves lost men? Jesus Christ
(and there were many more having to do with stories of the Bible)
And then catechisms, which were a series of questions and answers to help the
children build a Biblical worldview.
For example, the teacher would ask little first-grade Suzie, "Question 22: How did
Christ being the Son of God become man?"
And Suzie would stand up and say. "Christ the Son of God became man by taking to
himself a true body and a resonable soul, being conceived by the power of the Holy
Ghost, in the womb of the virgin Mary, and born of her, and yet without sin."
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The National Education Association (NEA) said this, regarding the Bible, in 1892:
"...if the study of the Bible is to be excluded from all state school; if the
inculcation of the principles of Christianity is to have no place in the daily
program; if the worship of God is to form no part of the general exercises of
these public elementary schools; then the good of the state would be better served
by restoring all schools to church control."
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Harvard University's Rules and Precepts - 1636
"Let every student be plainly instructed, and earnestly pressed to consider well,
the main end of his life and studies is, to know God and Jesus Christ which is
eternal life (John 17:3) and therefore lay Christ at the bottom, as the only
foundation of all sound knowledge and learning."
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Harvard's Original Motto
"Veritas Christo et Ecclesiae"
Truth for Christ and the Church
This motto has been abandoned for the shorter:
"Veritas"
Truth
-----------------------------------
Princeton's founding statement:
"Cursed is all learning that is contrary to the Cross of Christ."
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Columbia University's Seal
Above her head: Yahweh (in Hebrew)
At the top: Psalm 36:9 in Latin "In thy light we see light"
On the ribbon: Psalm 27:1 in Hebrew "God is my Light"
Under her feet: 1 Peter 2:1-2 (admonishment to desire the pure milk of God's Word)
-----------------------------------
Gouverneur Morris - One of the most prominent speakers during the constitutional
convention, the chairman of the committee of style, he actually wrote the US
Constitution, said this:
"Religion is the only solid basis of good morals; therefore education should teach
the precepts of religion, and the duties of man towards God."
- Life of Governer Morris, Vol III
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Samual Adams
"Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to
renovate the age, by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating
their little boys and girls, of inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and
love of the Deity...in short of leading them in the study and practice of the
exalted virtues of the Christian system."
- Letter to John Adams, October 4, 1790
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Benjamin Rush - One of the signers of the Declaration of Independence
"In contemplating the political institutions of the United States, I lament that
we waste so much time and money in punishing crimes, and take so little paints to
prevent them. We profess to be republicans and yet we neglect the only means of
establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government. That is, the
universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by the means of
the Bible."
- Benjamin Rush, "A Defense of the Use of the Bible as a School Book," 1798
-----------------------------------
North-West Ordinance - Laid down the requirements for a territory to become a
state
"Article III. Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good
government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall
forever be encouraged."
July 13, 1787
-----------------------------------
Noah Webster
"In my view, the Christian Religion is the most important and one of the first
things in which all children, under a free government, ought to be instructed...no
truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian Religion must be the
basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free
people."
- Reply to David McClure, Oct. 25, 1836
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Murals that line the rotunda of the capital
The first mural depicts the arrival of Christopher Columbus. Christopher believed
his name was given as "One who bears Christ". His purpose for coming to America
has been rewritten.
The second mural depicts the baptism of Pocahontas, which of course is never
featured in history books or the Disney movie.
The third mural depicts the pilgrims as they are on the deck of the Speedwell
before their initial departure. The Scripture is open, and their hands are held
open and their eyes and hands are uplifted to heaven.
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George Washington, Farewell Address, September 17, 1796
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion
and morality are indispensable supports...In vain would that man claim the tribute
of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness,
these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens."
-----------------------------------
John Adams
"Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is Religion
and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can
securely stand."
- Letter of June 21, 1776, quoted in The Wall Builder Report, Summer 1993
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Benjamin Rush - Signer of the Declaration of Independance
"The only foundation for...a republic is to be laid in Religion. Without this
there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is
the object and life of all republican governments."
- Essays, Literary, Moral and Philosophical, 1798
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SgtSpike

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-----------------------------------
George Washington, Farewell Address, September 17, 1796
"...And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be
maintained without religion...reason and experience both forbid us to expect that
national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."
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Charles Carroll - Signer of the Declaration of Independance
"Without morals, a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who
are decrying the Christian religion...are undermining the solid foundation of
morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."
- Letter to James McHenry, November 4, 1800
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Samual Adams
"Religion and good morals are the only solid foundations of public liberty and
happiness."
- Letter to John Trumbell, October 16, 1778
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Patrick Henry
"The great pillars of all government and of social life [are] virtue, morality,
and religion. This is the armor...and this alone, that renders us invincible."
- Letter to Archibald Blair, January 8, 1799
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Alexis De Tocqueville - A Frenchman who came to America, he wrote what is
considered one of the classic pictures of early American life.
"The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and liberty so intimately in
their minds that it is impossible to make them conceive one without the other."
"The religious atmosphere of the country was the first thing that struck me upon
my arrival in the U.S. In France, I had seen the spirits of religion and freedom
almost always marching in opposite directions, in America, I found them intimately
linked together and joined and reigned over the same land...Religion should
therefore be considered as the first of their political institutions. From the
start, politics and religion have agreed and have not since ceased to do so."
- Democray in America
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Benjamin Franklin was about the least religious of any of the founding fathers,
but he still believed in God.
"...only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and
vicious, they have more need of masters."
- Letter to Messrs. The Abbes Chalut and Arnaud, April 17, 1787
-----------------------------------
The beginning of Noah Webster's dictionary:
In the beginning, God spoke, and everything came into being. When God revealed
Himself to us, He revealed Himself to us in words, in language. If God speaks and
the creation comes into being, and He reveals Himself in through words and
language, then that means that words are very important. And the definiton of
words are very important. God has called me to write a dictionary.
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Noah Webster
"...the moral principles and precepts contained in the Scriptures ought to form
the basis of all our cibil constitutions and laws... All the miseries and evils
which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery, and
war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the
Bible."
- History of the United States, 1833
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John Adams
"We have no government armed in power capable of contending in human passions
unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral
and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
- Address to the Officers of the Massachusetts Militia, 1798
-----------------------------------
Daniel Webster
"To preserve the government we must also preserve morals. Morality rests on
religion; if you destroy the foundation, the superstructure must fall. When the
public mind becomes vitiated and corrupt, laws are a nullity and constitutions are
waste paper."
- 4th of July, 1800, Oration at Hanover, N.H.
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Declaration of Independance
"...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, they
they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights..."
"...and to assume among the powers of the earth the separate and equal station to
which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitles them..."
So many people say that is a Deistic term, but read the next two quotes, which
came much earlier than the Declaration of Independance.
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Sir Edward Coke (1552-1634)
"The law of nature is that which God at the time of creation of the nature of man
infused into his heart, for his preservation and direction...the moral law, called
also the law of nature."
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William Blackstone
"...as man depends absolutely upon his Maker for everything, it is necessary that
he should, in all points, conform to his Maker's will. This will of his Maker is
called the law of nature...This law of nautre...dictated by God himself, is of
course superior in obligation to any other. It is binding over all the globe, in
all countries, and at all times: no human laws are of any validity if contrary to
this; and such of them as are valid derive all their force, and all their
authority...from this original."
"Upon these two foundations, the law of nature and the law of revelation, depend
all human laws; that is to say, no human laws should be suffered to contradict
these."
- "Commentaries on the Law" 1723-1780
-----------------------------------
James Wilson - Signed the U.S. Constitution, U.S. Supreme Court Justice
"Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which
is Divine...Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters,
friends, and mutual assistants."
"Of the General Principles of Law and Obligation"
-----------------------------------
Virtually all of the original constitutions of the early states required an
individual to take an oath of belief in Jesus Christ. We will take Delaware as an
example, but we could look at any of them.
"Article 22. Every person who shall be chosen a member of either house, or
appointed to any office or place of trust...shall...make and subscribe the
following declaration, to wit:
I, _______, do profess faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ His only Son,
and in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed for evermore; And I do acknowledge the
Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by Divine Inspiration."
- Original Delaware Constitution
-----------------------------------
Mayflower Compact (November 11, 1620)
"In the name of God, Amen. We whose names are underwritten...having undertaken,
for the glorie of God, and advancemente of the Christian faith...a voyage to plant
the first colony..."
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Constitution of the New England Confederation (May 19, 1643)
"Whereas we all came to these parts of America with the same end and aim, namely,
to advance the kingdome of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to injoy the liberties of
the Gospell thereof with purities and peace, and for preserving and propagating
the truth and liberties of the gospel..."
-----------------------------------
Benjamin Franklin (one of the least religious founders), says this in the midst of
the constitutional convention when the convention was about to break up:
"...how has it happened, Sir, that we have not hitherto once thought of humbly
appealing to the Father of lights to illuminate our understandings? In the
beginning of the contest with Great Britain, when we were sensible to danger, we
had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard
and they were graciously answered... And have we now forgotten that powerful
friend? Or do we imagine that we no longer need His assistance? I have lived,
Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this
truth - that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to
the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his
aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings, that 'except the Lord
build the House, they labor in vain that build it.' I firmly believe this; and I
also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political
building no better, than the Builders of Babel. We shall be divided by our little
partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall
become a reproach and bye word down to future ages...I therefore beg leave to move
- that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on
our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to
business..."
- Constitutional Convention, June 28, 1787
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Tim

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The founding fathers were all white, that doesn't mean that America is a white country.
 

SgtSpike

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Spike, your quotes are mostly of general religion, not Christianity. Is Christianity important to your point?
Yes, mostly. But there are many undeniably Christian quotes and Christian-like religious views from them.

I'm not trying to sit here and say everyone was a Christian. But it's pretty clear, especially from aspects like the New England Primer (which sold more copies than there were people at the time) that just goes to show how very Christian America was around the time of its founding. Not everyone, but certainly the vast majority, were Christians.
 

Accountable

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Yes, mostly. But there are many undeniably Christian quotes and Christian-like religious views from them.

I'm not trying to sit here and say everyone was a Christian. But it's pretty clear, especially from aspects like the New England Primer (which sold more copies than there were people at the time) that just goes to show how very Christian America was around the time of its founding. Not everyone, but certainly the vast majority, were Christians.
Certainly pious, whether Christian or diest. I'm sure they would think the lengths we've taken this church/state argument are ridiculous.
 

All Else Failed

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Yes, mostly. But there are many undeniably Christian quotes and Christian-like religious views from them.

I'm not trying to sit here and say everyone was a Christian. But it's pretty clear, especially from aspects like the New England Primer (which sold more copies than there were people at the time) that just goes to show how very Christian America was around the time of its founding. Not everyone, but certainly the vast majority, were Christians.
Yeah a lot of people in America were Christian but that doesn't mean at all that America was founded on Christianity. In fact in the Treaty of Tripoli we even stated that America in no way was founded on Christianity.
 

Wookiegirl

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Does it really matter if our founding fathers were Christians?
I do not think it offers any relevance what they believed in.
I think that the fact that they were TRUE patriots that were willing to sacrifice their own lives for freedom and liberty speaks volumes on the depth of character these men had.
 

Hans

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From a historical standpoint, one of the primary motivations for people to move to America was for religious freedoms. Religion was also not only far more common, but often EXPECTED. Our founding faters were MOSTLY all somesort of Christian. This does not really have any control over our nation as a whole. Perhaps the 10 commmandments play a roll in our laws, but honestly, the 10 commandments themselves are good moral/ethica rulings. Even if it were proven Jesus/God was no real (not my thoughts), but if this happened, I imagine wed still keep that law-frame.
 

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From a historical standpoint, one of the primary motivations for people to move to America was for religious freedoms. Religion was also not only far more common, but often EXPECTED. Our founding faters were MOSTLY all somesort of Christian. This does not really have any control over our nation as a whole. Perhaps the 10 commmandments play a roll in our laws, but honestly, the 10 commandments themselves are good moral/ethica rulings. Even if it were proven Jesus/God was no real (not my thoughts), but if this happened, I imagine wed still keep that law-frame.
Only the basic rules to ensure freedom and mutual respect. The rest, while good, aren't useful in a legislative sense.
  • Don't kill - because you don't want others killing you, do you?
  • Don't steal - because others have as much right to their own stuff as you do to yours.
As for the others:

Freedom of Religion kinda shot these in the ass.
  • You shall have no other gods before Me.
  • You shall not make for yourself a carved image
  • 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Freedom of Speech clashes with these:
  • You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
  • You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. (this one is arguable, depending on matters of degree)
These two are Big Brother "thought police" issues:
  • Honor your father and your mother
  • You shall not covet
You shall not commit adultery is largely ignored in today's society.
 
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