When did we say it was OK to pat down kids ?

[Francis]

OK so most of us heard about the Incident in San Diego when John Tyner refused the full body scan and was sent for a pat down. When they told him they would be pat down in his groin area he refused.

But had you heard about the incident of a 3 year old being pat down in a similar fashion in 2008 while her parents were there.

My opinion is this might seen appropriate and fair enough, but when does this become excessive and at what point did the terrorist really win..

[youtube]HBcRo4xKGdU[/youtube]

 

[Francis]

Here is the one with the child..

Its not the little girl from the other video but a boy about the same age..

[youtube]VN6pJ7nP1yA[/youtube]

 

[Guyzerr]

They have an age limit on it now as far as kids are concerned. I don't remember what it is but it doesn't make sense what ever it is. If an adult terrorist knows he's going to get felt up he would just plant the bombs on a kid. Child suicide bombers have been used before haven't they. The whole thing has gone past the point of being absurd.

 

[Francis]

They have an age limit on it now as far as kids are concerned. I don't remember what it is but it doesn't make sense what ever it is. If an adult terrorist knows he's going to get felt up he would just plant the bombs on a kid. Child suicide bombers have been used before haven't they. The whole thing has gone past the point of being absurd.

Hummm, the first video I posted was just done.. Not sure there is an age limit on pat downs at Airports and in fact on TSA web site it list none...

X-Rays and Pat downs
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1049.shtm

About kids, including X-Ray machines
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/children/index.shtm

 

[Guyzerr]

Hummm, the first video I posted was just done.. Not sure there is an age limit on pat downs at Airports and in fact on TSA web site it list none...

X-Rays and Pat downs
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1049.shtm

About kids, including X-Ray machines
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/children/index.shtm

Well suck me dry and call me dusty. I saw something on the news just this morning as a natter of fact. I can't remember if it was CNN or CBC but I do know they mentioned an age limit. Maybe they were blowing smoke outa their ass.

 

[Minor Axis]

The rally cry lately is "Don't touch my junk!". I work in aviation. For the new scanners, I thought at one point, the software was fixed so that you don't see someone's actual body, but a generic body, but I could be wrong about that. Maybe they gave up on that? Online research is in order.

So people don't want to show off their bodies and originally it was supposed to be a new convenience and faster. I thought the idea was that now that they can see your body, they didn't need to make you take everything out of your pockets? But when I saw it in action it was shoes, belts, wallets and everything out of your pockets. I don't see this as a convenience. This may be a higher level of security, but it is less convenient and will slow up the line, not speed it up. If my choice was to go through one of these machines, I would pick that any day over a pat down. I mean this is a new level of intrusion, a pat down. Before they just wanded you. I'm feeling rather negative about how this has developed. :mad

 

[Alien Allen]

I think it is a matter of time that somebody sues

The degree they are going to is an assault no matter the intent

If a cop did it he would possibly be fired and certainly be in big trouble

The monday after Thanksgiving will be chock full of news of people complaining. I suspect by the end of the week that TSA will be forced to change what they are doing and go to a more traditional pat down.

 

[Minor Axis]

I might have been mistaken regarding what I saw. Instead of the new full body scanner, it might have been one of those puffer machines that have been around for a while. So I am not sure what has to come off when you go through one. Here is a link to the technology. It does not look like they are using a generic body, but are looking at your body including your private parts...

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19746-online-briefing-fullbody-scanners.html

And here is a whole page full of scanner images. I don't know if they are all authentic or not.

Here is an example of a nice one:



Not so nice:

 

[FreightTrain]

Anything short of molestation is fine by me. A pat-down still causes less harm than an explosion in a plane full of passengers. Also, I'm all for racial profiling. If there's been a terroristic threat on a video sent to a major news network and the guy in the video is clearly from the Middle East, then pat down every man, woman, and child fitting the description--myself, included.

 

[Alien Allen]

we need to quit being PC and use common sense.

which includes profiling

we can't copy the Israeli methods due to the scale of what is involved here but we sure can utilize some of the tools they use

 

[Minor Axis]

Anything short of molestation is fine by me. A pat-down still causes less harm than an explosion in a plane full of passengers. Also, I'm all for racial profiling. If there's been a terroristic threat on a video sent to a major news network and the guy in the video is clearly from the Middle East, then pat down every man, woman, and child fitting the description--myself, included.

So if Timothy McVeigh intentions had been discovered in advance, you would be all for all Anglos getting extra attention going through security and you would not complain if it was a huge inconvenience? If you say so. From a pragmatic aspect, racial profiling can be useful, but if overdone it is racist. I don't have confidence that the racist aspect of it can be avoided.

Benjamin Franklin: "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

BTW, welcome to the forum.

 

[FreightTrain]

Thanks for the welcome. I don't see it as being racist. Racism is an attitude whereas a person or group of people are looking to gain something from taking advantage of another race which they feel to be inferior. When a police officer is looking for a criminal and needs an eyewitness to describe the suspect there needs to be as much description as possible from the witness. Whether the suspect can give approximate height, weight, visible tattoos, race, hair color, eye color, etc. all help in locating the suspect and bringing him/her to justice. If lives are at stake, but lines in the airport move a little slower, so be it. I can't see bitching about a little inconvenience when I could be on a plane with some nutjob looking to kill everyone on it. I haven't ever viewed going to the airport as a good time and I've been traveling by plane since the 70s. I feel loosening up on security is exactly what terrorists want.

 

[Accountable]

Anything short of molestation is fine by me. A pat-down still causes less harm than an explosion in a plane full of passengers. Also, I'm all for racial profiling. If there's been a terroristic threat on a video sent to a major news network and the guy in the video is clearly from the Middle East, then pat down every man, woman, and child fitting the description--myself, included.

• Federal gov't pat-downs are a violation of the 4th Amendment, molestation-level or not
• Our enemies are Muslim extremists. Muslims come in every color, ethnicity, and nation. Focusing on "race" targets innocents and gives other potential terrorists a pass. How about behavior profiling instead?

 

[edgray]

When did we say it was OK to pat down kids ?

when it was discovered that terrorism, which lives in the world of make-believe and fairies, is appealing to children.

 

[Accountable]

As close as I can tell, the scanners cost around $150,00 each. If someone can find a source, please drop it in.

Rapiscan Systems makes the scanners.
http://www.rapiscansystems.com/

Rapiscan is owned by OSI Systems ...
http://investors.osi-systems.com/directors.cfm

which owns/runs OSI SYSTEMS INC PAC OSI PAC ...
http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/committees/osi-systems-inc-pac-osi-pac.asp?cycle=08

and employs The Chertoff Group to lobby Congress. The Certoff Group is, of course, Co-founded by former Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff and Chad Sweet, former Director of Operations for the CIA.
http://publicintelligence.net/the-chertoff-group/

OSI Systems CEO is Deepak Chopra, who accompanied President Obama to India on his latest trip.
http://investors.osi-systems.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=530184

Isn't it odd that the molestations are only required where the naked scanners are installed? Old scanner sites still have the old pat downs. Why is that, ya think?

Follow the money.

 

[Francis]

Anything short of molestation is fine by me. A pat-down still causes less harm than an explosion in a plane full of passengers. Also, I'm all for racial profiling. If there's been a terroristic threat on a video sent to a major news network and the guy in the video is clearly from the Middle East, then pat down every man, woman, and child fitting the description--myself, included.

This is about kids, not just the TSA.. There is a thread about the TSA that you can vent there all you want..

A 3 year old does not understand what is going on and should not be put thru such physical abuse in the name of "possible cause", when another child right ahead, who did not hit the right pull over number walks right past and could be the carrier if that's your point..

What are we to expect next.. Have 3 years olds sit on toilets for 6 to 12 hours to make sure they don't have coke or anything else dangerous in their intestines or perhaps you would like the TSA to stick their hand in bodily parts to check personally..

 

[The Man]

They have an age limit on it now as far as kids are concerned. I don't remember what it is but it doesn't make sense what ever it is. If an adult terrorist knows he's going to get felt up he would just plant the bombs on a kid. Child suicide bombers have been used before haven't they. The whole thing has gone past the point of being absurd.

Bingo

 

[Francis]

Bingo

Bingo what ? Did you win something ?

 

[Minor Axis]

Bingo what ? Did you win something ?

I understood.

 

[FreightTrain]

They have an age limit on it now as far as kids are concerned. I don't remember what it is but it doesn't make sense what ever it is. If an adult terrorist knows he's going to get felt up he would just plant the bombs on a kid. Child suicide bombers have been used before haven't they. The whole thing has gone past the point of being absurd.

I agree. Why give terrorism a chance??? I really can't understand the debate.