What I don't understand about black holes

[Ryum]

don't get me wrong you could fill the grand canyon with what I don't know about black holes, but the one thing that keeps nagging at me is.


If the massive gravity that is caused by a black hole causes time to move slower

(by our relative observation point on earth)

then how does anything really happen at or very near a black hole?
(again from our distant position we are veiwing this from)

If things are passing thru the time dimension slower and slower as they get closer then wouldn't it take all but forever for matter to actually get sucked in?

I hope this makes some sense.

 

[AtlanticBlue99]

because of the immense gravity, the black hole bends light, and since we judge our time on light- time is slightly warped. for example, the Hubbel telescope can't see black holes because they emit no light, but the light they entrap is bent and warped towards the black hole form every direciton so you can see a bright white or faint blue (depending on distance away from us and speed it is moving away from us) ring around a black hole and a distinct emptiness of a black and perfect circle.

so an object we can observe that is farther than a black hole from us will have a warpage in light and a small warpage in time in relation to how long that light would naturally take to reach us. a lot of light in the universe takes billions of years to reach us at the speed of light, so small warpage is near negligible- but, the warpage in time is present

 

[AtlanticBlue99]

If things are passing thru the time dimension slower and slower as they get closer then wouldn't it take all but forever for matter to actually get sucked in?

I hope this makes some sense.

the things that are entrapped by the immense gravitational force of a black hole do get sucked in forever. this is because a black hole continually sucks matter in to an infinitey small point of infinitely large mass. if these conditions can not be met, an enormous explosion of matter can occur as the black hole collapses on itself. if the conditions are met, then astronomers and cosmologists say that the creation of the universe would occur again. most creation theories have an infinitely large amount of matter on at an infinitely small point, then it collapses and boom- or bang!

but since the universe is expanding at a greater rate than black hole growth, we shouldnt have to worry about that sort of thing

 

[sharpies]

then how does anything really happen at or very near a black hole?
(again from our distant position we are veiwing this from)

That is the point of a black hole. As you get closer & closer to the centre of the black hole, time slows down & your mass (weight) increases. So does the beam of light carrying the picture of you away from the black hole. Then at a certain point - scientists refer to it as the Event Horizon - that beam of light carrying your picture cannot get away from the gravitational pull & so we can't see what is happening to you.

Try not to think of a Black Hole as a dimensional rift, I prefer to think of it as a very small point which has a very great pull. It pulls everything towards it & as it does it pulls them apart, at first just lengthening, like dough but soon pulling apart the atomic bonds & then pulling apart the atoms. These are then deposited upon that small point, but even they are flattened, imagine a squash ball, squashed. It would take a lot of material to make the small point grow larger, but over billions of years it's size would slowly increase.

Some scientists think that is how the Universe will end - with lots of black holes eventually eating each other up. Maybe they will turn into a single point that explodes with a "big bang".

 

[Sim]

Well crap. There's nothing further I can post after these two.

Oh wait...yes there is. Black holes should be avoided. Most have been former prostitutes and might suck you in and take all your money.

The end.

I now return you to your regular programming.

 

[MrAWatts]

Since they can't be seen, since the escape velocity of it's gravitational pull has exceeded the speed of light (which is why no light can escape) the way they locate a black hole is by judging the gravitational effects of another celstial object, such as another star, planet, asteroid, etc...

 

[Ryum]

thanks for the info, but my orginal misunderstanding of a black hole still exist


If time slows down more the closer you get to it than how does a black hole actually suck anything up?

if an object that is moving the speed of light can not move thru time (thus it looks like it will never age)

then how is anything happening to an object being pulled at light speed into the black hole
if at that same time it is not traveling thru time?

 

[Rusteh]

well from what i'm understanding of your question is how is anything moving when there is no time....

it's really all based on THEORY...there is no way possible at this time to even have the ability to study black holes, only theorys at this point.

but back to your question, since a black hole is an "anomoly" (sp?) in of it's self, our perceived understanding of time and space may also be bent or even broken with-in a black hole so it's possible that things may continue to move in a limitless state of time...

also I understood a theory that once something is swallowed by a black hole that the particles that make it up are then seperated and destroyed by the immense gravity....so it's possible before it gets to the point where time is irrelavent that it's already destroyed....

there are many theory's and we can go threw all of them based on this thread...but there will never be a correct answer until a way to research said black holes becomes possible.

 

[04ShakinSteed]

I WAS going to give you the real answer...but not now!!!

hint: it all lies in the dimensional rift of the space/time continuum.

 

[BooFetus]

Re: RE: What I don't understand about black holes

Well crap. There's nothing further I can post after these two.

Oh wait...yes there is. Black holes should be avoided. Most have been former prostitutes and might suck you in and take all your money.

The end.

I now return you to your regular programming.

:funnah

 

[artisan00]

Re: RE: What I don't understand about black holes

thanks for the info, but my orginal misunderstanding of a black hole still exist


If time slows down more the closer you get to it than how does a black hole actually suck anything up?

if an object that is moving the speed of light can not move thru time (thus it looks like it will never age)

then how is anything happening to an object being pulled at light speed into the black hole
if at that same time it is not traveling thru time?

i didnt read all the posts so pardon me if i repeat - but your question is a matter of perception. what happens (supposedly) at/near/beyond the event horizon of a black hole is that yes, you get pulled in faster and faster. but at teh SAME time, since (as someone i believe said already) light cannot escape beyond the event horizon, what you would 'see' if you 'tossed a ball' into a black hole, is that the ball would seem to take forever to fall. reason being, again - since the light from the ball takes 'forever' to reach you becasue it cannot escape the hole, it takes 'forever' to perceive the motion. if however, you were in the hole yourself (which is impossible since as far as we know your atoms would be ripped apart as you passed through the event horizon anyhow) what you would see would be pretty different. however, since you cant ever send out any information from inside the hole, theres no point in speculating

so to reiterate, if you see soemthing pass into a blackhole, you woujld see it slow down and 'stop' simply becasue the light is 'never' reaching you - or you can think of it as the farther it goes in, the longer it takes for the light to get to you, and if you think in terms of limits, youll appraoch speed perceived = 0.

i hope this makes sense - or rather, i know it does - but i hope i explained it clearly...

oh and PS, in case you didnt know - the 'event horizon' is the theoretical 'boundary' of a black hole where light can no longer escape yadda yadda.

PPS - oh and i didnt edit this since im really tired so sorry if its rambly or whatever

PPPS - just re read the text i quoted - and one thing to add that may simplify the whole thing, is this - you said it yourself right there: "
if an object that is moving the speed of light can not move thru time (thus it looks like it will never age)"
basically, if something is moving infinitely fast away from you, it will take you infitinely long to 'see' it since seeing is basically just you 'receiving' the light, right? so indeed, it can be moving as fast as light but appear stationary ( or at least reeeeeeally slow)

PPPPS - didnt edit that either...

 

[lemon]

someone, i dont feel like looking around for finding out who, said that we cant see black holes.

wrong. we can. and it is, partially, becuase of the immense gravity. but the reason why its called the black hole, is becuase the light around it gets sucked into it. so to speak. so you have a bunch of stars around it, and this immense black region. thus that must be the black hole.

or maybe what some newer investigations call dark matter. :dunno

as to the slowing down:

you will not slow down. in fact, you go faster. due to the gravitational pulls... :dunno

 

[UncleBacon]

which leaves us with this question.....whats on the other side of a black hole :dunno

 

[AtlanticBlue99]

more universe. black holes are moving masses because of the obvious violence inside them with breaking of matter and particles... so black holes move across space and what is far behind them comes back to us as a faint blue light.

and i saw somewhere that someone said black holes are invisible- not true, we see the shape of a black hole because of the bright ring around them of stars and other matter that is just outside of the strong gravity that absorbs the light. so where the ring goes from bright white to black- the black hole begins...

 

[Ryum]

i think bacon meant what's on the other side as if you were to somehow go thru a black hole intact

 

[nos/man]

don't get me wrong you could fill the grand canyon with what I don't know about black holes, but the one thing that keeps nagging at me is.


If the massive gravity that is caused by a black hole causes time to move slower

(by our relative observation point on earth)

then how does anything really happen at or very near a black hole?
(again from our distant position we are veiwing this from)

If things are passing thru the time dimension slower and slower as they get closer then wouldn't it take all but forever for matter to actually get sucked in?

I hope this makes some sense.

BLACK HOLE ARE JUST AS GOOD AS WHITE CHICKS HOLES..BELIVE ME :hump

 

[AtlanticBlue99]

Re: RE: What I don't understand about black holes

i think bacon meant what's on the other side as if you were to somehow go thru a black hole intact

there is no other side. there is a spherical or elliptical mass in the center and its gravity is so strong that you could not get past it, just added to its matter... you may be able to go past one by not getting to close? the closest one to us though is too far away to reach

 

[UncleBacon]

as is most things in space with our technology

 

[artisan00]

a few things to add... the whole thing about it being invisible - people keep saying no it isnt. its again all a matter of semantics. yes, you can tell its 'there' by gravintational effects around it, but no, you cannot actually 'see' it in the normal sense (as in, light bounces off soemthing and enters your eye) becasue light will NEVER come from the hole to your eye. it get sucked up, to put it slangly.

so argue it however you want - its all in how you define your terms..

also, AB was right about the 'gravitational lensing' effect (though i dunno if he reffered to it by that name ) but again, that "ring" is not the hole, it is just the effect the hole has on the light passing by - and besdies, that ring is not always there. it would only show up if there were a bunch of stars beyond the hole (in your line of sight). i dont wanna bother getting into that but if you guys know the basics of how lenses work, its pretty simple.


but as to the orignial question- did i help with either of my posts?

 

[AtlanticBlue99]

yep yep. but im sure more Q's will come to be asked.