What Happened:

[Minor Axis]

CNN link about the newly released book, What Happened: Inside the Bush White House.

I don't know about you guys and gals, but after hearing that Bush admitted to McClellan that he authorized the leaking of a classified document (national intelligence estimate for political purposes-blowing Valerie Plame's cover), if there is any kind of real law left on the Federal level, Congress needs to take action. Using propaganda to sell the war, in other words lying to start an offensive War? And don't tell me Bush did not know about Scooter Libby and Rove.

This is how they do it- you decide on what crime your going to commit, then you set up one of your subordinates to take the bullet, ie, take the blame, and then the Commander in Chief under the guise of plausible deniability makes sure that person is taken care of financially in the aftermath. Reagan perfected it with Ollie North and Iran Contra (link) and it's been in the Republican play book ever since.

The Congress needs to subpoena McClellan, get his statements under oath and then investigate and move to persecute crimes and high treason. The Republican party likes to tell you that Bill Clinton lied about his blow job. And they spent 8 years and millions of dollars investigating him for political reasons. Yes he lied about his affiar and lying is lying, but I'll propose that in Clinton's case it was more a matter between husband and wife, then it was about persecution for political gain. And when it comes to death, damage, and treason, having an affair in office is *nothing* in comparison to what this Administration has done to the U.S. and it's standing in the world. Using this standard, President Bush without doubt qualifies for impeachment.

Do I actually think any action will be taken? NOPE, I have no confidence that any real legal action will be taken for this travesty of a war and travesty of this Administration.

 

[All Else Failed]

wahaha, I love it. But everyone pretty much knew this already.

 

[groundpounder]

...it's been in the Republican play book ever since....
The Republican party likes to tell you that Bill Clinton lied about his blow job.
And they spent...
Yes he lied...and lying is lying

...travesty of this Administration.

here's the main thing that bothers me about partisan politics. The whiff of the idea that one party has the moral high ground over the other.

Minor, if you think for one second it's not in BOTH playbooks, your "open mind" (read:liberal) is not quite what you hoped it would be.

Clinton lied
Bush lied
W lied
Reagan lied
Kennedy lied
Carter lied
LBJ lied
Ford lied

If you think Reagan perfected the patsy taking the fall along with plausible deniability, you're nuts! Bay of Pigs

for every Ollie North, there's a Vince Foster.

It happens on both sides, both sides reek of hypocrisy, and partisan politics suck.

 

[All Else Failed]

Partisan politics do suck, but I think that the republican party has done far worse things.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Partisan politics do suck, but I think that the republican party has done far worse things.

I think both sides use the fault of the other to make themselves look better.

In the end.......Isn't wrongdoing wrongdoing?

I mean a lie is a lie, murder is murder.....Theft is theft

 

[All Else Failed]

I think both sides use the fault of the other to make themselves look better.

In the end.......Isn't wrongdoing wrongdoing?

I mean a lie is a lie, murder is murder.....Theft is theft

Is murder worse than tax evasion?

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Is murder worse than tax evasion?

Not according to the IRS

 

[Minor Axis]

here's the main thing that bothers me about partisan politics. The whiff of the idea that one party has the moral high ground over the other.

I'm an independent moderate. Since Bush has taken office the number of Republican scandals far out distances the Democrats. Right Now I'd say the Democrats are on higher ground.

Minor, if you think for one second it's not in BOTH playbooks, your "open mind" (read:liberal) is not quite what you hoped it would be.

Clinton lied
Bush lied
W lied
Reagan lied
Kennedy lied
Carter lied
LBJ lied
Ford lied

If you think Reagan perfected the patsy taking the fall along with plausible deniability, you're nuts! Bay of Pigs

Didn't the Kennedy Administration take the fall for that? And I don't remember any underling taking the hit for the Administration.

for every Ollie North, there's a Vince Foster.

Oh, right, Right Wing conspiracy theories.... Ollie North is a fact.

It happens on both sides, both sides reek of hypocrisy, and partisan politics suck.

So what are you saying, just forget about it because it's business as usual?

Our government is only as good as the people running it and the standard the people insist they uphold. If Bush did authorize the leaking of a classified document for political purposes, you should be outraged, not ho-hum. If a military officer or enlisted person did such a thing, they would be branded a traitor and put into jail, no exceptions. If you or I robbed a bank, we would be prosecuted, convicted, and jailed. We should expect at least the same standard for our leaders.

It's a very sad state we find ourself in today when this kind of info comes out and nothing really happens. Well, something might eventually happen. As I stated before, Clinton *was* impeached for having a sexual encounter and lying about it. Bush meets at least the same standard.

 

[Minor Axis]

I think both sides use the fault of the other to make themselves look better.

In the end.......Isn't wrongdoing wrongdoing?

I mean a lie is a lie, murder is murder.....Theft is theft

Not really, even murder has several degrees.

Lying about a blow job is in slightly a different league than cooking intelligence, using propaganda to garner support and launch the country into a offensive trillion dollar sham of a war based on lies.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Not really, even murder has several degrees.

Lying about a blow job is in slightly a different league than cooking intelligence, using propaganda to garner support and launch the country into a offensive trillion dollar sham of a war based on lies.

You missed my point....Again

The point I am trying to make, and perhaps I should be more clear, is that when we have gotten to a point in society, where we actually define what shades of lies are more acceptable, we have problems far larger than the white house

Is that more clear, it's not about THEM, it's about us as a society and our perception.

 

[Minor Axis]

You missed my point....Again

The point I am trying to make, and perhaps I should be more clear, is that when we have gotten to a point in society, where we actually define what shades of lies are more acceptable, we have problems far larger than the white house

Is that more clear, it's not about THEM, it's about us as a society and our perception.

I don't think I did as I do think society *is* part of the problem. However do we accept wrong doing, especially wrong doing that results in hundreds of thousands of casualties, as routine? I hope not, but I not under any illusions either.

 

[groundpounder]

I'm an independent moderate.

very little that you have posted here would suggest that.:cool
The proof is always in the pudding, and your posts are as left leaning as any on here. Sorry to be the one that has to break it to you, but you're no independent moderate.

Since Bush has taken office the number of Republican scandals far out distances the Democrats. Right Now I'd say the Democrats are on higher ground.

case in point

Oh, right, Right Wing conspiracy theories.... Ollie North is a fact.

exhibit B

So what are you saying, just forget about it because it's business as usual?

Not sure where in the world you would have gotten this. I just observed that partisan politics suck, from the left AND from the right. I would WHOLLY welcome and encourage a full Congressional investigation into this matter, because if McClellan is right (likely), then Bushy by NOT getting his dick sucked by an intern but lying to the American people has given up about the only thing he had on Clinton as it relates to being a good Prez - the morality play. I've always looked at Bush as a decent guy with good morals. But the guy that cleans my office windows is a decent guy with good morals, but that doesn't mean he's qualified to be President. Ergo, I think Bush is about as qualified to be President as the guy that washes my windows (which is why I didn't vote for him), but I've always appreciated his decency and good guy qualities. But if he willfully lied about the intel and has no plausible explanation, I don't think he needs to be impeached - I think he needs to be imprisoned.

...If Bush did authorize the leaking of a classified document for political purposes, you should be outraged, not ho-hum...

I AM outraged. This is FAR worse than a Cohiba in an intern's pussy. NO comparison...

It's a very sad state we find ourself in today when this kind of info comes out and nothing really happens. Well, something might eventually happen. As I stated before, Clinton *was* impeached for having a sexual encounter and lying about it. Bush meets at least the same standard.

If there is NOT a congressional hearing into this, I will be utterly appalled!
CNN can run live feed of Roidger Clemens huffing and puffing to the Congressional hearing called in his honor but we can't look into the highest level of lying (treason) that this country perhaps has EVER seen?? Preposterous

 

[IntruderLS1]

I don't know about you guys and gals, but after hearing that Bush admitted to McClellan that he authorized the leaking of a classified document (national intelligence estimate for political purposes-blowing Valerie Plame's cover), if there is any kind of real law left on the Federal level, Congress needs to take action. Using propaganda to sell the war, in other words lying to start an offensive War? And don't tell me Bush did not know about Scooter Libby and Rove.

Do you know how Valerie Plame was named? Not that it was a huge deal anyway, but as some people are pissed about it, I'll ask... Do you know?

 

[Minor Axis]

What happened is there is a guy looking to sell a book and he knows there's millions of Moore-Ons who will buy into every loony conspiracy theory that someone can conceive of. That's what happened.

Lol, and you're just like all those Right Wing blow hards that will jump all over McClellan instead of examining what he's saying because the Party must be protected at all costs, regardless if it is or is not the truth. This is the definition of corruption. All I'm calling for is an investigation.

 

[Minor Axis]

very little that you have posted here would suggest that.:cool
The proof is always in the pudding, and your posts are as left leaning as any on here. Sorry to be the one that has to break it to you, but you're no independent moderate.case in point

I accept the fact you don't believe me. I can't help it the current Administration is giving me lots to worry about. I have a right to trash them and I'm happy to trash Democrats that are screwing up too. It's just currently the Republicans have won the national scandal contest.

Not sure where in the world you would have gotten this. I just observed that partisan politics suck, from the left AND from the right. I would WHOLLY welcome and encourage a full Congressional investigation into this matter, because if McClellan is right (likely), then Bushy by NOT getting his dick sucked by an intern but lying to the American people has given up about the only thing he had on Clinton as it relates to being a good Prez - the morality play. I've always looked at Bush as a decent guy with good morals. But the guy that cleans my office windows is a decent guy with good morals, but that doesn't mean he's qualified to be President. Ergo, I think Bush is about as qualified to be President as the guy that washes my windows (which is why I didn't vote for him), but I've always appreciated his decency and good guy qualities. But if he willfully lied about the intel and has no plausible explanation, I don't think he needs to be impeached - I think he needs to be imprisoned.

Thanks for clarifying. Based on your reply I may have made an assumption. It's kind of like saying the President has been accused of murder and the response is, well, everybody does it, don't they? This is an exaggeration to try to explain why I responded the way I did.

BTW, I've always thought the President was below average intelligence even amongst every day people and for the last 6 years he appears corrupt and possibly a puppet. This is the most secretive Administration in history and apparently for good reason. But even that does not qualify me as a liberal...

If there is NOT a congressional hearing into this, I will be utterly appalled!
CNN can run live feed of Roidger Clemens huffing and puffing to the Congressional hearing called in his honor but we can't look into the highest level of lying (treason) that this country perhaps has EVER seen?? Preposterous

Yes I agree.

 

[Minor Axis]

Do you know how Valerie Plame was named? Not that it was a huge deal anyway, but as some people are pissed about it, I'll ask... Do you know?

Actually I'd like to hear your version.

And as far as being a big deal, I'll assure you as a veteran who worked with top secret compartmented documents, that leaking a classified document for political purposes would have gotten me put into jail. What's good for the people at the bottom is good for the people at the top.

 

[Minor Axis]

This is old tired news--the reason there will be no Congressional hearing is because its wacko conspiracy theory nonsense---speculation, innuendo, and hearsay---there's absolutely no concrete evidence. Its about as credible a theory as Bush deliberately let people die in Hurricane Katrina (there are people who believe there is a weather machine in Alaska and that Bush actually ordered up the Hurricane and ordered the Levis blown up--and these people are walking the streets). Look, if its not this, there's a 100 other wacko conspiracy theories out there--none of them go anywhere because thank God we still have a judicial system where competent evidence is required to convict someone of a crime. Honestly, Bush would have been convicted of probably a 1000 or so felonies if you let most of the left wing loons decide the "evidence" of them.

This is not a theory, it's an accusation from a former high Administration official who may have an agenda, or maybe is feeling guilty. Put the shoe on the other foot, if it was a Democratic President, there would be an investigation. They investigated Clinton for 8 years spending millions of dollars and found nothing. Based on the source we owe no less to the current Administration.

 

[Tim]

Do you know how Valerie Plame was named? Not that it was a huge deal anyway, but as some people are pissed about it, I'll ask... Do you know?

In July of 2003 Robert Novak wrote a piece entitled "Mission to Niger" where he disclosed Plame's name and her status.

Novak got his information from Richard Armitage.

Richard Armitage got his information from Rove and "Scooter" Libby.

Who in turn got it from Cheney.

 

[Minor Axis]

BTW--that "feeling guilty" is laughable--if he was feeling guilty, he wouldn't be writing a book--he'd be testifying Congressional impeachment hearings. Wake up and smell the cofee and take off the tin foil hat.

Hey that was only one option. You as all the others (I won't say who the others are ) just want to attack the messenger. If you care anything about truth, assign more energy to examining his accusations. And just what if those accusations are true- do ya care? Or is protecting the Republican party more important?

(I only break out my tin hat for alien invasions.)

 

[Tim]

BTW--that "feeling guilty" is laughable--if he was feeling guilty, he wouldn't be writing a book--he'd be testifying Congressional impeachment hearings. Wake up and smell the cofee and take off the tin foil hat.

BTW, he will be appearing before congress soon enough. There is already talk about setting up hearings. :dunno