Vicarious Atonement

[BornReady]

A central doctrine in conservative Christianity is that Jesus died for our sins. For the sake of argument, let's say Jesus was tortured to death as described in the Bible. How does that help you or me? The idea that a person or animal can be punished for the sins of another is primitive. How is it that such an idea is still considered respectable by so many today?

 

[Peter Parka]

I consider anyone suffering for my actions as completely barbaric. It sounds like yet another con to get people to tow the religious line through blackmail

 

[Zorak]

I don't know, I think it makes for a great story. :nod:

 

[BornReady]

Sort of how Cinderella overcame her wicked step-sisters, Jesus overcame the wicked Jews. But I think Cinderella wins hands down. Cinderella isn't racist. The Jews have suffered a lot because of the "greatest story ever told." I see what you mean though.

 

[Zorak]

I don't really get on board with that, Jesus wasn't racist. He's about the only consistent thing in the bible (probably why he's the least interesting bit) just nice to everybody all the time. You're meddling racist interprettions in with the literal narrative.

 

[BornReady]

Yeah, the Christian/Jewish conflict didn't start because of the story. I think people tell stories to help justify what they want to do in the first place. That's what early Christians were doing when they added the following line to the story.

And all the people answered and said, “His blood be upon us and on our children.”

 

[Greatest I am]

God rejected the vicarious atonement of Jesus as it would be immoral to offer it or accept it.
Why have you forsaken me is answered with this .

Pro 21:3 To do justice and judgment [is] more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice.
Psa 49:7 None [of them] can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

I ask this following of many Christians but few take me up on it. I think they know deep down that the issue is a loser for them.

Are you willing to look up these and comment on our salvation without the blood or Jesus?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp9XIh-BPio

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHP-f-_F9U

Regards
DL

 

[BornReady]

I ask this following of many Christians but few take me up on it. I think they know deep down that the issue is a loser for them.

Yeah, liberal Christians have abandoned the doctrine of vicarious atonement. And that's good. Unfortunately it is still a central doctrine in conservative Christianity. But I think, even there, it's days are numbered. People are realizing that everyone must be responsible for his or her own actions.

 

[Greatest I am]

Yeah, liberal Christians have abandoned the doctrine of vicarious atonement. And that's good. Unfortunately it is still a central doctrine in conservative Christianity. But I think, even there, it's days are numbered. People are realizing that everyone must be responsible for his or her own actions.

Let us pray, so to speak.
Unfortunately, many that I chat with are not quite there yet.
Sometimes I think that if I hear ---but Jesus died for me---one more time, I will puke.

Regards
DL