US troop withdrawal

[Tim]

Do you think that the phased withdrawal of the troops from Iraq is something that should start happening now? Who is right in this battle of witts?
These are the items that the President wants removed from the bill before he will sign it into law to allow the military to get the money it needs.

The language of the legislation reads:
(a) Transition of Mission - The President shall promptly transition the mission of United States forces in Iraq to the limited purposes set forth in subsection (d).
(b) Commencement of Safe, Phased Redeployment from Iraq - The President shall commence the safe, phased redeployment of United States forces from Iraq that are not essential to the purposes set forth in subsection (d). Such redeployment shall begin not later than 120 days after the date of the enactment of this Act.
(c) Prohibition on Use of Funds - No funds appropriated or otherwise made available under any provision of law may be obligated or expended to continue the deployment in Iraq of members of the United States Armed Forces after March 31, 2008.
(d) Exception for Limited Purposes - The prohibition under subsection (c) shall not apply to the obligation or expenditure of funds for the limited purposes as follows:
(1) To conduct targeted operations, limited in duration and scope, against members of al Qaeda and other international terrorist organizations.
(2) To provide security for United States infrastructure and personnel.
(3) To train and equip Iraqi security services.

 

[Peter Parka]

Re: US troop withdraw

Well personally, I don't know what the solution is. The situation over there is far from stable with a lot of corruption in the Iraqi police and goverment still. I was totally opposed to the war but we created this mess and I see it as our job to stay until we've sorted it out, unfortunately I don't see how it can get sorted, it seems like a no win situation like what has been going on in N Ireland since 1916 to me. It's hard to get peace when you have two sets of staunch religions wanted to blast the crap out of each other at any opportunity!

 

[IntruderLS1]

The language of the legislation reads:

(d) Exception for Limited Purposes - The prohibition under subsection (c) shall not apply to the obligation or expenditure of funds for the limited purposes as follows:
(1) To conduct targeted operations, limited in duration and scope, against members of al Qaeda and other international terrorist organizations.
(2) To provide security for United States infrastructure and personnel.
(3) To train and equip Iraqi security services.

It looks to me like we could continue on our current course with this language. If we included Iraqi security services (which we're doing) on every mission we undertake, it could be viewed as on the job training.

I agree with Pete up there. We have a responsibility to the world today and future generations to get this thing done. There are several governments activly stiring up trouble there, so it's not just Iraqi's hating and killing Iraqi's. The super majority of them want the same thing the super majority of Americans want. Safe streets, good schools, and the chance to do business. They hate the bad guys more that we do. I feel that Iran, Syria, and Jordan should be held accountable for what they're doing.

The UN just pisses me off sometimes. LOL. Why are they not doing something about this? How can they expect to be a respected political and military entity with impotence like this?

 

[BKV]

Re: US troop withdraw

Well personally, I don't know what the solution is. The situation over there is far from stable with a lot of corruption in the Iraqi police and goverment still. I was totally opposed to the war but we created this mess and I see it as our job to stay until we've sorted it out, unfortunately I don't see how it can get sorted, it seems like a no win situation like what has been going on in N Ireland since 1916 to me. It's hard to get peace when you have two sets of staunch religions wanted to blast the crap out of each other at any opportunity!

I Have a Solution.

Pull all of Our Troops out then NUKE the whole Damn place.

 

[UncleBacon]

I do think we should stay until the job is done but we do need to start bringing some of our troops back...I couldn't vote either way...I'm in between

 

[Boomer]

Get our troops outa there man.

 

[Stuja]

Pointless war really. Get them out of there. Hehe

 

[Tim]

There are several governments activly stiring up trouble there, so it's not just Iraqi's hating and killing Iraqi's. The super majority of them want the same thing the super majority of Americans want. Safe streets, good schools, and the chance to do business. They hate the bad guys more that we do. I feel that Iran, Syria, and Jordan should be held accountable for what they're doing.

You make it sound as though Iran, Syria and Jordan bear most of the blame for the violence in Iraq. While I'm sure that they play a role in the violence, it is a very small one.

While it is not known how many of those resisting the U.S. occupation in Iraq are from outside the country, it is generally agreed that foreign fighters make up a very small percentage of the insurgency. Major General Joseph Taluto, head of the 42nd Infantry Division, said that "99.9 per cent" of captured insurgents are Iraqi.[20] The estimate has been confirmed by the Pentagon's own figures; in one analysis of over 1000 insurgents captured in Fallujah, only 15 were non-Iraqi.[4]

Wikipedia

Most American falsely believe that when they hear about insurgents in Iraq, they are hearing about foriegn fighters. Ask the typical person off the street what an Iraqi insurgent is and he will most likely tell you that it is someone from outside the country who came to create trouble in Iraq.

 

[TheOriginalJames]

I'd hate to be over there so I can sympathize with the troops and I want nothing more than for them to come home and be safe - but at the same time I think a complete withdrawal would bring chaos to Iraq, and the government all of our soldiers died for to set up would collapse under the pressure of any regime willing to go take the area back over.

It's like the US is stuck between a rock and a hard place.

 

[Tim]

I'd hate to be over there so I can sympathize with the troops and I want nothing more than for them to come home and be safe

Can you even imagine how heart breaking it must have been to all our troops when they learned that their 12 month tours have all been extended to 15 months? Imagine if you only had a few days left until you got to go home and see your family then got the news.
I wonder how many troops will be lost in their last 3 months of deployment when they should have been home.

 

[IntruderLS1]

It's part of the job Tim. I know it sucks, but that's why it's volunteer only.

I agree with what you said about the majority of fighters being Iraqi. I was not clear enough in my post, because usually it would make things unnecesarily complicated. The governments mentioned however are channeling money, training, operational and tactical information, and gernally stirring up bad ju-ju. i.e. Keeping the hot places hot.

They don't send their boys in to do the fighting though. You're right on there..... Sissys. haha

 

[Veronica]

I do think we should stay until the job is done but we do need to start bringing some of our troops back...I couldn't vote either way...I'm in between

I agree with you

 

[TheOriginalJames]

Can you even imagine how heart breaking it must have been to all our troops when they learned that their 12 month tours have all been extended to 15 months? Imagine if you only had a few days left until you got to go home and see your family then got the news.
I wonder how many troops will be lost in their last 3 months of deployment when they should have been home.

I can't imagine it, but I can definitely understand them being upset with the government. I chose not to join the military because of things like that. My brothers tour was almost extended, but he had been honorably discharged a mere 6 months before 9/11 happened. Partly because he got his now wife pregnant and she was being discharged before her tour had ended.

 

[Johnny]

Get them out of there

 

[White2000GT]

Can you even imagine how heart breaking it must have been to all our troops when they learned that their 12 month tours have all been extended to 15 months? Imagine if you only had a few days left until you got to go home and see your family then got the news.
I wonder how many troops will be lost in their last 3 months of deployment when they should have been home.

That is a great post Tim. My thoughts? Unfortunately we started this war and it would be a shame to leave the mess in someone else's hands. At the same time I feel that our job was complete once we toppled Saddam's regime and helped set up a new government. It was at that time that a deadline SHOULD have been put in place so as to put more pressure on the new Iraqi government to gain stability of their own goddamn country. But instead it somehow fell on our shoulders and now the country is in the midst of a Civil War that we have no business being a part of. I hate it that so many of our nation's troops are dying in this senseless war. I hate it even more that our piece of shit Commander-in-Chief is still so deluded as to think that this war can be won by military force alone. I think it sucks ass that our soldiers' deployments got extended to 15 months, which, unfortunately, will mean that more of them will not be going home alive. And I absolutely hate it that my ship will have been gone for 8 months on this deployment by the time we get home; and that starting even before Christmas of this year we will be going out to sea for at least 10 days every month right on up until the next 7 month deployment... next year as well. And what the fuck for? To support a war that we shouldn't be a part of. A war that is being lost, not by the troops, but by our flacid dicked, incompetent so-called leaders.
Take a look at the list of casualties since the start of this war. What's the number up to now? 3,300 or so? Take a look at their ranks. See how many of them are officers of the rank O4 and above. I'd be surprised to see a single one. No, the majority of casualties have been E5 and below. Most of them have been in their mid 20's and younger. Yes, as Intruder pointed out, it is an all-volunteer force. But how many of us signed on with the hopes of giong to war and dying? I would have to say not very many. Sure, it is an accepted fact these days that if you join the military, the Army and Marines especially, that you WILL be going over to Iraq. But that still doesn't excuse the number of senseless deaths we have sustained.
And this whole surge thing, which is why my ship will be deploying again next year instead of in 2009 like it should be, and why the Army is extending deployments, is going to cause nothing more than more deaths because the troops will be burned out... exhausted... morale will be degraded. And all those things make for a dangerous situation.
I don't think a complete withdrawal would be a wise decision at this point. But we need to put pressure on the Iraqi's to step up their game so less of the burden will have to be absorbed by our troops. We need to lessen, not lengthen, our deployments. We need to be able to spend less time on the killing fields and more time at home with our friends and families where we are really needed. And that is the bottom fucking line!

 

[UncleBacon]

and for you navy folk the word on the street is that if you are going for the entire 20 years as long as this conflict remains you will be doing a mandatory year in the sand...as much as I would like to take a few shots at them I know my ass belongs on the ship not in the sand...I have a lot of friends that are about to be sent over their to work with the army and marines...they are recieving about 3 months total training and then getting shipped off to go play soldier instead of sailor...to me this is a huge mistake...although I'm sure most sailors will be able to adapt I think its going to get a lot of them killed...to me 3 months is not efficient enough time in training to do that job...my roommate is going at the end of the year...I on the other hand will be departing the navy for good at the end of the year

 

[Tim]

To everyone who is serving, has served, has a loved one who is serving or knows anyone who is serving. I want you to know that my views on the war and how it's being handled by the government in no way changes my support for you. That is something that I will always have, support for every man and women who puts their life on the line for me and my country.

Now my disgust of this war is how Bush is more concerned with his "legacy" than with the men and women he has put in harms way to complete his fathers war. It is beyond belief that the American people has stood by for so long and allowed his administration to run the military into the ground. Time after time you hear from the military commanders and how Bush's plan is no plan at all. Bush has to look for new commanders on a regular basis that actually back him up and do his bidding. He can't even find a general who is interested in taking on the new position he is creating, the war csar. There isn't one gereral stupid enough to take this war off the presidents hands. But just think about that for a second, the new position he is trying to create is the job that HE is supposed to do. You know, the Commander in Chief! What is he, too busy? Does he need another vacation? or did he finally realize that he is in over his head and doesn't know what the hell he is doing?
I just know that it's time for a change, time to organize and start working on a phased withdrawal. I don't want us to pull the troops out completely and leave the area to complete disarray. But we CAN get the troops out of harms way and keep peace from a distance.

Hell I have soooo much more to say on this, but I will let you guys talk some more about it before I write a book.

 

[White2000GT]

And that's another thing too Bacon, and I'm glad you mentioned it. That whole Individual Augmentation thing is a load of crap. I agree with you, they are sending sailors over there by the butt load with only 3 months of training and expecting them to do the same job that soldiers and Marines train for years to do. Sea duty is arduous enough as it is, but then when we get to take a little break and go to shore duty we have to worry about getting "voluntold" that we are going to Iraq or Afganistan or fucking Djibouti Africa for a year. If I didn't already have so much time in service right now I would get out too. It's almost not worth staying in just knowing how much time away from home I will be facing in the coming years. Taking into consideration the fact that I would like to settle down and start another family one day, plus spend some more time with my kids anyway. Looks like that won't be happening though. Thanks a lot George! Fuck you very much!

 

[UncleBacon]

going coastie to finish up my military time...more time at home and a lot more laid back...same pay and benefits

 

[White2000GT]

Cool. Me and a couple of my guys were talking about that just the other day. I might check into that myself since I am due to reenlist in '09. I wouldn't mind spening my last 6 years as a puddle pirate if it means more time with my family and less time in a region of the world where we are hated and unwanted.