Ukraine, Crimean War

[Naiwen]

So yes, what do you think of the situation in Ukraine and Crimea? Should the US continue to meddle?

 

[Stone]

Diplomacy is usually the logical and moral action as opposed to violence, so imo, the US should continue with diplomatic efforts.

Better question is should the Russians continue their invasion of free and independent Nations of Europe?
First Georgia, now Ukraine. This is not the same as questioning whether they should be stopped, it's questioning their right to invade free and independent neighboring nations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_war


Is Putin the 'new Hitler' of Europe as some proclaim?
Even liberals aren't fooled ( shocking! )
http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-crime...ton-compares-russian-president-111139669.html
excerpts:

Clinton drew a parallel between Adolf Hitler's rhetoric that ethnic Germans living in neighbouring countries he later invaded were oppressed, and Vladimir Putin's claim that ethnic Russians in Ukraine are under threat by nationalists and radicals.

"Now if this sounds familiar, it's what Hitler did back in the 30s," Clinton said, the Long Beach Press-Telegram reported.

 

[Naiwen]

Diplomacy is usually the logical and moral action as opposed to violence, so imo, the US should continue with diplomatic efforts.

Better question is should the Russians continue their invasion of free and independent Nations of Europe?
First Georgia, now Ukraine. This is not the same as questioning whether they should be stopped, it's questioning their right to invade free and independent neighboring nations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_war


Is Putin the 'new Hitler' of Europe as some proclaim?
Even liberals aren't fooled ( shocking! )
http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-crime...ton-compares-russian-president-111139669.html
excerpts:

Problem is, Crimea belongs to Russia, hence why Ukraine accuses Russia of invading.

 

[Stone]

Problem is, Crimea belongs to Russia, hence why Ukraine accuses Russia of invading.

Crimea belongs to Russia

Says you.


Says otherwise
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Crimea

 

[Aries]

Oh boy. Wasn't I just reading about 'meddling' in another thread?

 

[Stone]

Oh boy. Wasn't I just reading about 'meddling' in another thread?

People and agendas.

 

[MainerMikeBrown]

I would not want to be visiting Ukraine right now considering the danger.

 

[The Man]

Can someone bring me up to speed.I though the "invasion" was to establish order in one city...the equivalent of the national guard here in a city with riots.
I can not find anything definitive...But it appears as if my original source was pretty vague and possibly misleading.
If Russia is not going in to bring order..but rather create chaos then this changes everything.
I recently made a thread downing Obama as he was going against Russia...but maybe he is finally growing a pair.

What exactly is Russia doing ..and what is their goal?

 

[Stone]

Can someone bring me up to speed.I though the "invasion" was to establish order in one city...the equivalent of the national guard here in a city with riots.
I can not find anything definitive...But it appears as if my original source was pretty vague and possibly misleading.
If Russia is not going in to bring order..but rather create chaos then this changes everything.
I recently made a thread downing Obama as he was going against Russia...but maybe he is finally growing a pair.

What exactly is Russia doing ..and what is their goal?

What exactly is Russia doing ..and what is their goal?

Simply:
The Russians backed a Ukrainian President that was eventually legally deposed by the Ukrainian Parliament.
Why deposed?-----> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine
Now the Russians fear losing their only Naval access to the Black Sea which is important not just to their military, but trade routes also.
Rather than negotiating, they obviously intend to take the port and surrounding territory by force using the disruption, and ethnic Russian safety, as rationale.

Not much Obama can do about it but use diplomacy.
I don't expect much will or can be done to stop the Russian invasion.
Europe is a limp dick, the UN silent and the Ukraine isn't a Nato member, although Russia is!
We're spread so thin, strength and finance wise, the Russians probably know the US won't get involved militarily.
But, imo, economic sanctions should be imposed if Russia invades.

 

[The Man]

Simply:
The Russians backed a Ukrainian President that was eventually legally deposed by the Ukrainian Parliament.
Why deposed?-----> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine
Now the Russians fear losing their only Naval access to the Black Sea which is important not just to their military, but trade routes also.
Rather than negotiating, they obviously intend to take the port and surrounding territory by force using the disruption, and ethnic Russian safety, as rationale.

Not much Obama can do about it but use diplomacy.
I don't expect much will or can be done to stop the Russian invasion.
Europe is a limp dick, the UN silent and the Ukraine isn't a Nato member, although Russia is!
We're spread so thin, strength and finance wise, the Russians probably know the US won't get involved militarily.
But, imo, economic sanctions should be imposed if Russia invades.

Thanks
That led me to some further research it appears that there was an agreement during the nuclear arms reduction era which Russia would be violating ...several nations had reached an agreement...that agreement was to prevent what Russia is doing now. .taking advantage of a nation later after the agreement.
Russia needs to honor that...Since the area is valuable as a strategic standpoint...Russia needs to kiss some butt Imo.
It seems an easy agreement could be reached .
Russia being able to use the area in exchange for protection..it would be win win for both.

 

[porterjack]

Thanks
That led me to some further research it appears that there was an agreement during the nuclear arms reduction era which Russia would be violating ...several nations had reached an agreement...that agreement was to prevent what Russia is doing now. .taking advantage of a nation later after the agreement.
Russia needs to honor that...Since the area is valuable as a strategic standpoint...Russia needs to kiss some butt Imo.
It seems an easy agreement could be reached .
Russia being able to use the area in exchange for protection..it would be win win for both.

The Budapest agreement?

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

 

[The Man]

The Budapest agreement?

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That sounds familiar yes.

 

[dansmith]

So yes, what do you think of the situation in Ukraine and Crimea? Should the US continue to meddle?

This whole situation concerns me greatly because it seems like each and every day Russia continues to move from east to west and I think if we continue to make threats, Mr. Puten is going to retaliate with actions verses words. I fear this may cause us to, at the very least, enter a second cold war with Russia which scares the hell out of me.

I know what a second one could mean, and if we’re not careful, we could be facing full on WWIII with Russia and if that happens, I’m sure China will enter the fray and of course North Korea. I’m very concerned about this, I just hope this is what happens, Ukraine splits into an Eastern and Western part. East would be ruled by Russia since most of those people want to return to Russian influence and ways anyhow, and the Western section would have Western Ideals since that’s where this whole mess started was protestors from the western part. Please someone ease my fears here, tell me I’m an idiot, but if you do please explain why. I want to be wrong about all of this, I’m just very concerned that I may not be.

 

[The Man]

I think thier interest is the crimea region to mantain naval power.
Either way they have been invaded as they had to surrender arms.
I do not believe a split should be done east and west as you suggest as it is still a take over of the nation.
The area they are interested in is a few sqare miles on the coast.
I dont think we will go to war...we are trying to use sanctions. ..which can only hurt relations and not solve the issue. ..it could result in tensions as you say.
Imo we should either let it go...or if we are going to help then go help and screw the threats.
Bad move on obamas part...he showed the hand he was going to play...he played it and they didnt care
Ukraine is still invaded and we have damaged relations with Russia as a result.
His bet would have been to to make a statement such as...if a satisfactiry resolution isnt met the US will have to investigate as to whether action should be taken in regard to the matter.

 

[kaiuk]

It's a different type of war now. It's not military based on guns and missiles, and it is not a cold war with nations competing over who has the biggest WMD. It is now based on finance and politics. These sanctions will certainly upset some of the big players in Russia as they will have invested a lot of their zillions in safe havens overseas. The question is how much of it will be frozen e.g. bank savings, property, businesses etc..

 

[Alien Allen]

Does anybody really think we are meddling in this issue? Give me a break. You have to be kidding. Obama is a useless turd who is clueless. Those were some harsh actions he took weren't they. Putin is just having fun with him.

Should we get involved. Nope

Let Europe deal with Russia

I don't see WWIII coming. That is just histrionics

 

[The Man]

It's a different type of war now. It's not military based on guns and missiles, and it is not a cold war with nations competing over who has the biggest WMD. It is now based on finance and politics. These sanctions will certainly upset some of the big players in Russia as they will have invested a lot of their zillions in safe havens overseas. The question is how much of it will be frozen e.g. bank savings, property, businesses etc..

Ok...but none of that helps the people in Ukraine. .and only causes further tensions between Russia and other nations.
I am not a big fan of sanctions. .at one time I was but I have changed on that position as they dont deal with the actual issue...kind of like flattening the tires of someone that is playing loud music at home. ..you smash the stereo lol.