U.S. snipers accused of 'baiting' Iraqis

[Mrs Behavin]

WASHINGTON - Army snipers hunting insurgents in Iraq were under orders to "bait" their targets with suspicious materials, such as detonation cords, and then kill whoever picked up the items, according to the defense attorney for a soldier accused of planting evidence on an Iraqi he killed. Gary Myers, an attorney for Sgt. Evan Vela, said Monday his client had acted "pursuant to orders."
"We believe that our client has done nothing more than he was instructed to do by superiors," Myers said in a telephone interview.
Myers and Vela's father, Curtis Carnahan of Idaho Falls, Idaho, said in separate interviews that sworn statements and testimony in the cases of two other accused Ranger snipers indicate that the Army has a classified program that encourages snipers to "bait" potential targets and then kill whoever takes the bait.
The Army on Monday declined to confirm such a program exists.
"To prevent the enemy from learning about our tactics, techniques and training procedures, we don't discuss specific methods targeting enemy combatants," said Paul Boyce, an Army spokesman.
Boyce also said there are no classified programs that authorize the murder of Iraqi civilians or the use of "drop weapons" to make killings appeared to be legally justified, which is what Vela and the two other snipers are accused of doing.
The transcript of a court hearing for two of the three accused snipers makes several references to the existence of a classified "baiting" program but provides few details of how it works. A copy of the transcript was provided to The Associated Press by Vela's father.
The Washington Post, which first reported the existence of the "baiting" program, cited the sworn statement of Capt. Matthew P. Didier, the leader of a Ranger sniper scout platoon.

U.S. snipers accused of 'baiting' Iraqis - Yahoo! News

 

[All Else Failed]

So I guess an civilians killed by doing this doesn't matter to them?

 

[Breath]

So I guess an civilians killed by doing this doesn't matter to them?

I'm making a few points, and then I can't say anymore because I'll be gone.

War and/or counter terrorism don't always follow the rules of humanity. It never has; it never will.
With that being said, you already know that civilian deaths DO matter to America. We are one of the most compassionate warring nations on the planet.
The fact is that there will be civilian deaths, no matter what. It's the cost of the conflict. Do we like it? Hell.fucking.no. Can we avoid it? Hell.fucking.no.
If we waited until the opportunity to strike was civilian-free, that time would never come.

 

[Peter Parka]

With that being said, you already know that civilian deaths DO matter to America. We are one of the most compassionate warring nations on the planet.

Sorry, is this some kind of sick joke???

 

[Tim]

I'm making a few points, and then I can't say anymore because I'll be gone.

War and/or counter terrorism don't always follow the rules of humanity. It never has; it never will.
With that being said, you already know that civilian deaths DO matter to America. We are one of the most compassionate warring nations on the planet.
The fact is that there will be civilian deaths, no matter what. It's the cost of the conflict. Do we like it? Hell.fucking.no. Can we avoid it? Hell.fucking.no.
If we waited until the opportunity to strike was civilian-free, that time would never come.

I think you might miss the point of the story...

When you bait, your likely hood of killing innocent people are much to high to consider it ethical.
If your putting detonation cord on the ground and shooting whom ever picks it up, you're doing nothing but killing innocent people. Since when is it punishable by death to pick up detonation cord? How do you know it wasn't being picked up to be discarded, to get rid of it before the "bad" people find it and use it.
If this story IS true and I pray it isn't, then I hope those who are accountable are brought to justice. To determine whether someone lives or dies solely by the fact they picked up a discarded item is criminal to say the least.

 

[GraceAbounds]

I don't mind traps being set up to capture insurgents, but I agree with Tim in regards to this particular story.

 

[Peter Parka]

Hope you dont mind but that is sig worthy!:eek

 

[GraceAbounds]

It isn't the first time I've agree'd with Tim and it won't be the last.

 

[All Else Failed]

I think you might miss the point of the story...

When you bait, your likely hood of killing innocent people are much to high to consider it ethical.
If your putting detonation cord on the ground and shooting whom ever picks it up, you're doing nothing but killing innocent people. Since when is it punishable by death to pick up detonation cord? How do you know it wasn't being picked up to be discarded, to get rid of it before the "bad" people find it and use it.
If this story IS true and I pray it isn't, then I hope those who are accountable are brought to justice. To determine whether someone lives or dies solely by the fact they picked up a discarded item is criminal to say the least.

Yup. took the words out of my mouth.

 

[Johnny C]

So I guess an civilians killed by doing this doesn't matter to them?

Oh, you mean just like 9/11 huh?

 

[Tim]

Oh, you mean just like 9/11 huh?

What do Iraqi insurgents and 9/11 have in common?

Yes, almost 3000 innocent people died on 9/11.... but how does that relate to Iraqi insurgents? We might as well be in Jamaica sniping anyone who picks up detonation cord that we put on the ground. They have just as much to do with 9/11 as the insurgents in Iraq do.

 

[Johnny C]

Uummmm, we ARE in Iraq because of what happened on 9/11, whether you believe that or not is up to you.

 

[Tim]

I would love for you to point me in the right direction where I can see any proof or any evidence what so ever connecting the two.

What rock have you been hiding under? Even the Bush administration eventually admitted that Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11

 

[Johnny C]

Even though there is tons of evidence that Saddam Hussein supported and gave Osama Bin Laden $$?
Even though there have been thoughts of Bin Laden hiding in Iraq?

 

[Tim]

The hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, the money came from Dubai. Hell, Bin Laden is from Saudi Arabia, his family is one of the largest contractors there with BILLIONS of dollars.

As hard as the administration tried to link Saddam to Bin Laden, they just COULDN'T do it. And they tried every way possible to find a credible link.

 

[Johnny C]

Answer me this then. If we were in Iraq for no reason, then why was Iraq putting up such a fight?

 

[Tim]

Show me one country that wouldn't put up a fight if they were invaded... Every country has a sense of nationality and will resist if another country invades their homeland.

and I never said we weren't in there for no reason... we are there for their oil.

 

[Johnny C]

If I were a president of a country, and some other country said, I believe you are hiding terrorists, I would say, "I will help you any way I can, here, check EVERYWHERE you want, under my bed if you'd like".... no need to put up resistance unless you have something to hide.

 

[All Else Failed]

Oh, you mean just like 9/11 huh?

Thats no excuse to kill innocent people? Where were you even going with that?

Uummmm, we ARE in Iraq because of what happened on 9/11, whether you believe that or not is up to you.

^^^ One of the greatest lies the government has fed to the public. Read the "Plan for the new American Century" documents, its clearly states that we are interested in securing natural resources to sustain our power with in the world. Alan Greenspan's new book also touches on this fact.

Even though there is tons of evidence that Saddam Hussein supported and gave Osama Bin Laden $$?
Even though there have been thoughts of Bin Laden hiding in Iraq?

Where were you in the 1980's when we practically STARTED the Taliban with CIA Money? 3 billion to be exact.

Answer me this then. If we were in Iraq for no reason, then why was Iraq putting up such a fight?

We're there to secure a foothold in a oil rich land where we can reap profits in the future and have a nice, American friendly "government" there to sell us barrels for cheap.

It isn't even Iraqi's that are the majority in putting up a fight. Most of the insurgence are foreign fighters.

 

[Johnny C]

Thats no excuse to kill innocent people? Where were you even going with that?

That's not where I was going, but sounds good. Besides, it's war. I mean, we're talking about losers who send 8 year old kids up to our soldiers to blow them up, GOD FORBID our soldiers do what they are ordered to protect themselves! DAMN THEM! Get a clue. I had a friend die in IRAQ trying to go into a hospital to make sure everyone was OK, what happened? Someone through a grenade out at him. He was in the wrong though, right?

^^^ One of the greatest lies the government has fed to the public. Read the "Plan for the new American Century" documents, its clearly states that we are interested in securing natural resources to sustain our power with in the world. Alan Greenspan's new book also touches on this fact.

So, let's look at ALL these people who hate America, read what they say, and believe them. That's like talking to a black person, who is racist, about how racist white people are, and that ALL white people are racist. He's right. Get what I'm saying. Try coming up with your own decision instead of agreeing with someone who hates America.

I find it funny how all these people who hate America, LIVE in America. Such a terrible place huh?