they've got it all wrong

[skyblue]

the confederate flag is a battle flag,not a racism flag.......if english football can win the cross of st george back off the racists surely the southern states can do the same

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101015/ap_on_re_us/us_confederate_flag_black_neighbors

 

[Kyle B]

Technically it is a battle flag, but the flag of the Confederate States of America had the confederate flag in it's upper left corner.

 

[HottyToddyChick]

Here's a newsflash:

The big issue of the Civil War wasn't about racism and slavery. Slavery wasn't that common, actually. And those who did own slaves were more likely to treat them with respect than to be harsh and abusive. Even back then, sensationalism won out. The reason the South seceded was because of state rights versus federal rights. Oddly enough, the southern states felt oppressed and decided they'd rather govern themselves. Slavery was thrown into the mix to get people to support the war.

So no, that flag is NOT a symbol for racism and never has been. The people who equate it as such are either those looking to strike fear into minority groups and are few and far between or are the people within minority groups who will do anything to raise a little Cain to get a little attention and do the whole "woe is me" bit.

 

[skyblue]

Here's a newsflash:

The big issue of the Civil War wasn't about racism and slavery. Slavery wasn't that common, actually. And those who did own slaves were more likely to treat them with respect than to be harsh and abusive. Even back then, sensationalism won out. The reason the South seceded was because of state rights versus federal rights. Oddly enough, the southern states felt oppressed and decided they'd rather govern themselves. Slavery was thrown into the mix to get people to support the war.

So no, that flag is NOT a symbol for racism and never has been. The people who equate it as such are either those looking to strike fear into minority groups and are few and far between or are the people within minority groups who will do anything to raise a little Cain to get a little attention and do the whole "woe is me" bit.

thank you:clap

 

[HottyToddyChick]

What can I say, I like my rebel flag.

 

[itsmeJonB]

the confederate represents everything the south believed in, not just slavery. But slavery was a part of it.
The KKK waves it, so I have to believe that it has a racist stigma behind it for a reason.

disassociate yourself with it and move one, its an ugly flag anyway

 

[HottyToddyChick]

So because one group has chosen to use the symbol the entire world is supposed to associate it with negativity? Not buying it. Sorry.

And if you've ever taken a US History course with an emphasis on the Civil War you would know that the majority of southerners were poor farmers who could not own slaves. And for that matter, the majority of slaves in the South were better off than the majority of whites. The reasons for the formation of the Confederacy had little to nothing to do with slavery.

 

[itsmeJonB]

So because one group has chosen to use the symbol the entire world is supposed to associate it with negativity?

yes. similar thing happened with the swastika. not worried if you're buying it or not. society dictates how symbols are perceived not one small group of people

 

[HottyToddyChick]

I just think it goes back to the whole "Oppress the majority in hopes of not offending the minority" type thing. Because one small group views it as a symbol of hatred, it's become associated with racism and all sorts of other negative things. Therefore, for everyone else who views it as heritage or an important part of our nations history, they get looked down on for wanting to express that. Is that really fair?

I don't know enough about the history of the swastika to say anything about it, so I'll have to leave that one alone.

 

[itsmeJonB]

I just think it goes back to the whole "Oppress the majority in hopes of not offending the minority" type thing. Because one small group views it as a symbol of hatred, it's become associated with racism and all sorts of other negative things. Therefore, for everyone else who views it as heritage or an important part of our nations history, they get looked down on for wanting to express that. Is that really fair?

I don't know enough about the history of the swastika to say anything about it, so I'll have to leave that one alone.

I don't know about a small group thinking it as a symbol of hatred, but ok, lets think back. We are the United States of America now. To wave the confederate flag seems a little disrespectful seeing as it stood for a dislodging of the colonies, don't you think. Rebellion, as you put it.

 

[HottyToddyChick]

If you want to keep going in that vein though, then we should be flying the American flag because it's disrespect to England because we dislodged ourselves as the King's colonies and rebelled. So had the American Revolution not gone in our favor, would you consider flying what was then our current flag as disrespectful as flying the Rebel flag now?

It's one of those endless cycles. Somewhere, at any given point in history, someone stood up for something they believed in and rebelled. Someone agreed, someone disagreed. There isn't necessarily a right or wrong. And how far back to you go before you stop? (That was more Devil's Advocate than anything, really.)

 

[HottyToddyChick]

And since I had to go and look at a primary source just to be sure I wasn't completely off my rocker and did remember correctly, I found a transcript of the Confederacy's Declaration of Independence and this line:

The importation of negroes of the African race, from any foreign country, other than the slaveholding States or Territories of the United States of America, is hereby forbidden; and Congress is required to pass such laws as shall effectually prevent the same.

So the Confederacy essentially outlawed all slavery that wasn't pre-existing. I know we've gone off track, but I did want to throw that out there.

 

[dt3]

The vast majority of slaves were trafficked through Northern ports, mostly New England. So let's get rid of their flag too while we're at it. In fact, the famous Emancipation Proclamation only freed slaves in the South, not Northern slaves. Funny how nobody remembers that Lincoln only freed the slaves he legally had no control over, while condemning all of those he could have freed.

But the South gets the short side of the historical stick because they lost.

 

[Dana]

So because one group has chosen to use the symbol the entire world is supposed to associate it with negativity? Not buying it. Sorry.

And if you've ever taken a US History course with an emphasis on the Civil War you would know that the majority of southerners were poor farmers who could not own slaves. And for that matter, the majority of slaves in the South were better off than the majority of whites. The reasons for the formation of the Confederacy had little to nothing to do with slavery.

It's not only KKK... Racist rednecks seem to take pride in owning the confederate flag like its some awesome thing, I've even seen it up here in the northeast. BTW why would somebody not even from the US raise such a discussion? who are you Bono?

 

[JanieDough]

Here's a newsflash:

The big issue of the Civil War wasn't about racism and slavery. Slavery wasn't that common, actually. And those who did own slaves were more likely to treat them with respect than to be harsh and abusive. Even back then, sensationalism won out. The reason the South seceded was because of state rights versus federal rights. Oddly enough, the southern states felt oppressed and decided they'd rather govern themselves. Slavery was thrown into the mix to get people to support the war.

So no, that flag is NOT a symbol for racism and never has been. The people who equate it as such are either those looking to strike fear into minority groups and are few and far between or are the people within minority groups who will do anything to raise a little Cain to get a little attention and do the whole "woe is me" bit.

State's rights!

The north had almost as many slaves as the south, they just didn't have the big plantation system like the south. They knew the south's economy would go downhill if they freed slaves.

The south didn't want a big centralized government, but the north did. And of course the north was/is going to run things the way they wanted.

Not many "workers" in the north were exactly getting paid.


The New York Bank system - all the big Manhattan banks - got a jump start on slaves' backs...


And I actually studied this in school, and my professor was black. So don't tell me I'm just saying this because I'm white and from the south.

 

[HottyToddyChick]

Seems to me like the people from the South are the only ones who aren't quick to jump on the racism/slavery bandwagon. I'm sorry, and I really don't mean to offend, but I do find that kind of funny.

 

[JanieDough]

My relatives in upstate New York are some of the most racist people I have ever met. They use words I didn't know existed.

 

[Dana]

We have a bunch of racist backwards hicks up here.

 

[itsmeJonB]

There are racists everywhere, and their symbol, even here in California where it doesn't apply, is the Confederate flag.

 

[HottyToddyChick]

There are racists everywhere, and their symbol, even here in California where it doesn't apply, is the Confederate flag.

I'm not saying there aren't, I'm just amused that there seems to be (at least) two vastly different emphases being placed on the Civil War based on geography.