The Power of Nightmares

[edgray]

I watched this interesting BBC film last night, that was released some time ago.

It plots the start of Islamic Fundamentalism in the Middle East and Neo Conservatism in the US. It covers a lot of ground, starting with the failures of Liberalism in the US and follows the story from the fifties right through to right now, focusing on the way a non-existent threat (Al Qaeda) was blown out of all proportion into a huge threat that changed how us and our leaders think.

Please set aside a few hours (It's long, and in 3 parts) and watch closely so we can make sure that this nonsense never happens again.

Part 1:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2798679275960015727#

Part 2:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4602171665328041876

Part 3:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2081592330319789254

Biggest surprises the video shows is how a terrorist network like Al Qaeda simply doesn't exist, dirty bombs would have little or no effect, the Neo-Conservative agenda (which isn't too different from Islamic Jihad's own) and how not one actual "terrorist sleeper cell" has been found. Enjoy

 

[hart]

My puter stinks, watching a video on it would take days not hours. But do u really think Al Qaeda doesn't exist? Er, that's rather naive hon. And not having viewed the above, I think the American extreme right end has done more damage than the liberals.....

But then I am a sort of, I'd call myself Middle Liberal or Liberal Conseravative....I'm a mixture I guess, depending on the issue.

 

[edgray]

My puter stinks, watching a video on it would take days not hours. But do u really think Al Qaeda doesn't exist? Er, that's rather naive hon. And not having viewed the above, I think the American extreme right end has done more damage than the liberals.....

But then I am a sort of, I'd call myself Middle Liberal or Liberal Conseravative....I'm a mixture I guess, depending on the issue.

well try and watch it at some point - it's really interesting.

Yes, Al Qaeda, as an international organization with sleeper cells in 60 countries doesn't exist. The name, and the group where an invention.

I suppose you have to ask yourself: where have the arrests been? (the video goes into detail about the so-called sleeper cells that were busted in the UK and the US.) where have the cells been? why were there no mountain hideouts in Tora Bora? why haven't there been a mass of terrorist attacks?

the video goes into details about exactly how the fantasy of Al Qaeda was created, by whom, and for what purpose. It shows how our fear of terrorism has been built and used as a political tool, when really we have nothing to fear.

Interestingly, it points out how few people support Bin Laden in the muslim world, and how small Bin Laden's group was (around 6 men).

A real eye-opener of a documentary.

 

[hart]

well try and watch it at some point - it's really interesting.

Yes, Al Qaeda, as an international organization with sleeper cells in 60 countries doesn't exist. The name, and the group where an invention.

I suppose you have to ask yourself: where have the arrests been? (the video goes into detail about the so-called sleeper cells that were busted in the UK and the US.) where have the cells been? why were there no mountain hideouts in Tora Bora? why haven't there been a mass of terrorist attacks?

the video goes into details about exactly how the fantasy of Al Qaeda was created, by whom, and for what purpose. It shows how our fear of terrorism has been built and used as a political tool, when really we have nothing to fear.

Interestingly, it points out how few people support Bin Laden in the muslim world, and how small Bin Laden's group was (around 6 men).

A real eye-opener of a documentary.

Oh I do believe few Muslims support Bin Laden, I know of a few in the US and they have had to take so much sh*t since 911 and they are some of the most law abiding CITIZENS I know. As for trying to watch videos on my puter....I would have to get a whole new puter and I need $ for other stuff right now.

 

[Alien Allen]

More of the liberal crap ala Chumpsky I bet

Yeah AQ is just a figment of our imagination.

Right

What other nonsense is there to spew out there we should chew on

 

[hart]

what about Mt. St. Helens was a failed government experiment gone wild? haven't heard that, but someone, somewhere believes it I bet

 

[edgray]

More of the liberal crap ala Chumpsky I bet

Yeah AQ is just a figment of our imagination.

Right

What other nonsense is there to spew out there we should chew on

no, an award winning documentary from the BBC. Typical answer from you though, wouldn't expect anything else Allen! Why don't you watch the video?

yes, Al Qaeda is a figment of our imaginations. The official story is that it's an international terrorist organisation, highly trained and organised, with a hierarchy of authority and cells in 60 nations.

The reality is that it consists of a few men, no hierarchy, no organisation, no united goal.

Let me ask you, if they really existed, why haven't they been found and prosecuted? Why haven't there been any other terrorist attacks bar the main 3 (NY, London and Madrid)?

Take the IRA, for example. Been around for decades. And look how many arrests have been made, how many busts, how many weapons siezed. And they're tiny compared to what we're supposed to believe Al Qaeda are.

 

[edgray]

Oh I do believe few Muslims support Bin Laden, I know of a few in the US and they have had to take so much sh*t since 911 and they are some of the most law abiding CITIZENS I know. As for trying to watch videos on my puter....I would have to get a whole new puter and I need $ for other stuff right now.

I'd send you some tokenz if that would help!

Yeah the Muslims do tend to be very law abiding, most live pretty closely to the Koran, which, like the Bible, doesn't take too kindly to law-breakers....

I should point out that Al Qaeda wasn't invented by the Neo Cons, they were taken in by the lie themselves.

 

[dt3]

To say we have nothing to fear is head-in-the-sand crap, and is precisely the notion that allowed 9/11 to happen in the first place.

And a saying a dirty bomb having no effect is insane. It wouldn't have the effect of a nuke by any means, but setting one off in a densely populated area like Manhattan where the buildings would keep the fallout from dispersing would have an absolutely horrific death toll.

 

[edgray]

To say we have nothing to fear is head-in-the-sand crap, and is precisely the notion that allowed 9/11 to happen in the first place.

No of course there is always the possibility of something happening. I live in Spain, we face terrorism from ETA, and I'm from the UK and have been in more IRA bomb scares than I care to remember.

But, to think there is a secret, international group of terrorists hell bent on destroying the west is completely unjustified.

And a saying a dirty bomb having no effect is insane. It wouldn't have the effect of a nuke by any means, but setting one off in a densely populated area like Manhattan where the buildings would keep the fallout from dispersing would have an absolutely horrific death toll.

No. Both the US military and the Iraqi military studied the concept and the radiation wouldn't kill a soul.

Please everyone watch the video! It answers all of these questions!!

 

[Peter Parka]

Al Qaeda exists, its ridiculous to say it dosen't. The problem is people have the wrong idea about what it is. It's not some proper organisation, it's an idea and that's why it's so hard to fight.

 

[dt3]

No of course there is always the possibility of something happening. I live in Spain, we face terrorism from ETA, and I'm from the UK and have been in more IRA bomb scares than I care to remember.

But, to think there is a secret, international group of terrorists hell bent on destroying the west is completely unjustified.



No. Both the US military and the Iraqi military studied the concept and the radiation wouldn't kill a soul.

Please everyone watch the video! It answers all of these questions!!

Fair enough, a dirty bomb wouldn't have a high casualty rate immediately, but the long term effects of exposure radiation are well known. Even without killing anybody, imagine the consequences of one going off in the middle of Wall Street. The global economy would immediately be in unimaginable chaos and disorder.

 

[edgray]

Al Qaeda exists, its ridiculous to say it dosen't. The problem is people have the wrong idea about what it is. It's not some proper organisation, it's an idea and that's why it's so hard to fight.

Bin Laden didn't even start calling himself "Al Qaeda" until the US had started using it. The image was created by Jamal Al Fadel in the January 2001 trial regarding the US Embassy bombings.

It's not even really an idea: most of the Islamic Fundamentalists don't want anything to do with the West, they are trying to make Islamic states in their own countries.

Please everyone watch the video!!!

 

[edgray]

Fair enough, a dirty bomb wouldn't have a high casualty rate immediately, but the long term effects of exposure radiation are well known. Even without killing anybody, imagine the consequences of one going off in the middle of Wall Street. The global economy would immediately be in unimaginable chaos and disorder.

The research indicates that the radiation distributed by that mechanism would be negligible.

I think any kind of bomb going off in Wall Street would create chaos in the financial markets around the world, of that there is no doubt.

 

[Peter Parka]

Bin Laden didn't even start calling himself "Al Qaeda" until the US had started using it. The image was created by Jamal Al Fadel in the January 2001 trial regarding the US Embassy bombings.

It's not even really an idea: most of the Islamic Fundamentalists don't want anything to do with the West, they are trying to make Islamic states in their own countries.

Please everyone watch the video!!!

You can argue the semantics of what the're called all you like, it really dosen't matter. What matters is that a bunch of pissed off Muslims flew planes into the Pentagon and Twin Towers, bombed the London Underground and a bus and bombed a train in Spain. What they choose to call or not call themself has no bearing whatsoever on the thousands of lives they took and it dosen't make any difference.

 

[edgray]

You can argue the semantics of what the're called all you like, it really dosen't matter. What matters is that a bunch of pissed off Muslims flew planes into the Pentagon and Twin Towers, bombed the London Underground and a bus and bombed a train in Spain. What they choose to call or not call themself has no bearing whatsoever on the thousands of lives they took and it dosen't make any difference.

well it does make a huge difference because the fear generated by those events, and bolstered by the mirage that there's a huge and deadly enemy out there, has reshaped what our govts do. Look at the UK and the terror laws there - totally against human rights and utterly abused by the police.

So I'd argue that it not only matters, but is crucial for everyone to understand so we don't willingly sleep walk into a totalitarian police state under the fear of a fictitious enemy.

 

[Peter Parka]

well it does make a huge difference because the fear generated by those events, and bolstered by the mirage that there's a huge and deadly enemy out there, has reshaped what our govts do. Look at the UK and the terror laws there - totally against human rights and utterly abused by the police.

So I'd argue that it not only matters, but is crucial for everyone to understand so we don't willingly sleep walk into a totalitarian police state under the fear of a fictitious enemy.

Agreed but it's also important we dont "willingly sleep" into allowing another huge terrorist attack like 9/11 to happen again.

 

[edgray]

Agreed but it's also important we dont "willingly sleep" into allowing another huge terrorist attack like 9/11 to happen again.

Oh I agree on that, but how do we go about that?

The problem is that we have been pursuing the avenue of pre-emptive prosecution, which simply isn't lawful.

We have to be vigilant and have faith in our intelligence services and police forces. But the threat shouldn't be blown up and used to remove people's rights.

 

[Peter Parka]

Oh I agree on that, but how do we go about that?

The problem is that we have been pursuing the avenue of pre-emptive prosecution, which simply isn't lawful.

We have to be vigilant and have faith in our intelligence services and police forces. But the threat shouldn't be blown up and used to remove people's rights.

We also should have better security that when we allowed airplanes to get hijacked by people who were only armed with penknives.

 

[edgray]

We also should have better security that when we allowed airplanes to get hijacked by people who were only armed with penknives.

Most definitely. I think a lot of the security we now have in airports should have been there long ago.