The Capitalist Natural Order

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Minor Axis

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Capitalist purists like to speak of the natural order of supply and demand. Too many workers? Then we don't need to pay you as much. But who decides on how much the boss makes- is there a natural order for that? What determines if the boss/owner makes 100k, 500k, or 10m per year? This is the issue with capitalism. I argue there is no "natural" pre-ordained order, there are only human beings who decide how altruistic or how greedy they will be. The economic system we live under in part puts constraints on the excesses at both ends of the economic spectrum. Conservatives and the Republican Party mean to remove the constraints that exist within our U.S. economic system. This can be readily seen in the corporate board room salaries and in exportation of tens of millions of domestic jobs. This is why you don't want Republican's running the show. However this is not a blanket endorsement of Democrats. In most ways they are inept. I want someone leading the country who is effective and looks out for the well being of the majority, not just the well off. You can have a system that pays for everyone's medical if you want one, if it is a priority, right Canada? :)
 
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Tim

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Unregulated capitalism would collapse any system. There MUST be regulations and protections provided by the government.
 

porterjack

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Unregulated capitalism would collapse any system. There MUST be regulations and protections provided by the government.
otherwise there would be a revolution? the oppressed would surely never stand for the abuse
 

Tim

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We have to be very careful here in our mixing of economic models and government models...

Capitalism isn't a form of government just as democracy isn't an economic one.

Capitalism describes how business is run while our government is here to protect the people. whether it be from a foreign nation or a monopoly via capitalism.
There MUST be a balance between the two for a nation to survive under either
 

Minor Axis

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There MUST be a balance between the two for a nation to survive under either

Today's Republican Party is dead set against such a balance. You need no other reason to discount them for leadership. What I'd like to know is, when Medicare has been abolished and most people can't afford their medical bills or insurance, will this be viewed as a positive step forward? I don't think so.
 
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Accountable

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I've tried to have this conversation with Minor. It's useless, so I'll let him dance around in his fantasy land without me.

We have to be very careful here in our mixing of economic models and government models...

Capitalism isn't a form of government just as democracy isn't an economic one.

Capitalism describes how business is run while our government is here to protect the people. whether it be from a foreign nation or a monopoly via capitalism.
There MUST be a balance between the two for a nation to survive under either
You're right, Tim. The systems are different, but in this country they've become incestuous. In this, Minor has it right. Gov't, especially Washington, is an active partner in helping corporations thrive when natural capitalistic forces would have destroyed them long ago. Rather than protect the people, government has been turned and now protects the corporation.

There is not a balance between them today. they are on the same side of the scale.
 

Minor Axis

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Rather than protect the people, government has been turned and now protects the corporation.

There is not a balance between them today. they are on the same side of the scale.

Is this the Accountable I know and love? When you say government, you mean all of them and not just the Dims? But most of the time by focus, or lack there of, you are defending Republicans. NO, I'm not imagining it. When you smack down Obama, you are defacto defending the Shit Heads. I've never seen you put as much energy into smacking GOPpers as you do Dims.
 

Accountable

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Is this the Accountable I know and love? When you say government, you mean all of them and not just the Dims? But most of the time by focus, or lack there of, you are defending Republicans. NO, I'm not imagining it. When you smack down Obama, you are defacto defending the Shit Heads. I've never seen you put as much energy into smacking GOPpers as you do Dims.
Glad you finally noticed. BTW, how can smacking down a shit head be defending shit heads?
 

Minor Axis

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Glad you finally noticed. BTW, how can smacking down a shit head be defending shit heads?

Equal time is what is needed. ;) Who exactly would you like to see running the country? Names please. I think the situation is hopeless.


A specific U.S. political party spouts there is no role for big government. Does anyone here think that party gives a damn about quality domestic jobs? Does anyone here think that large multinational corporations are patriotic? I don't. They will sell out any domestic work force in any country in the name of profits.

This is what government was designed to do, look out for the well being of its citizens. This is specifically what the Republican Party wants no part of. So when they tell you they care about jobs, they do. They just don't care about your jobs.

My disclaimer is that I don't really know if the Democrats have what it takes to make the right decisions even if they were in a position to do so.

Newsweek: America's Workers Get Stiffed Again

There are two interesting points in this article. It outlines the move of Delphi who used to operate 41 U.S. plants and employed 50000 workers. Today it has 5000 workers in the U.S. and 100000 workers somewhere else.

The CEO said privately there was nothing the state could do. His voice quivering, he explained he was patriotic and had sworn he would always hire American, but now he had to go to China or close altogether. Taxes were a nonissue; material costs, wages, and proximity to customers and partners drove the decision.
So while there are pressures that drive manufacturing jobs overseas the Republican mantra of lower taxes creates jobs is BS when you have corporations actively moving their operations out of the country. I acknowledge there is still the reality of "the cost to make". If U.S. workers or any Western workers have a prayer of regaining manufacturing jobs, we must insist on a level playing field around the world. For example environmental laws.

The other point in this article is that it takes the government to actively promote policies that are conducive to job creation. Again, to hear the GOPpers spout, the only thing that can be done is lower taxes.

However:
But there is hope. It was only when Michigan, with the support of the Obama administration, began to co-invest in partnerships with clean-energy companies that our economy began to recover. In 2010, our job-creation rate improved faster than that of any other state, according to the Gallup index. But it required strategic intervention to save the patient.
There is definitely a role for big government, something Republicans want no part of. So Mr. John Q. Public, is the Republican Party really who you want representing your interests?
 
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Accountable

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There is definitely a role for big government, something Republicans want no part of. So Mr. John Q. Public, is the Republican Party really who you want representing your interests?
I don't know why you quoted my post in yours. I ask for someone that it pertains to to respond.
 

Alien Allen

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Minor again at his anti capitalism which means all republicans want no controls.

Get a grip Minor

The republicans are not gonna ever eliminate the EPA and OSHA which a pseudo republican named Nixon got enacted.

And I don't know any conservative that wants to wipe out regulations. We just want some sanity involved in the process and not the kind of voodoo bullshit like we have had for the last 40 years.
 
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