The Bible

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Peter Parka

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Has anyone here actually sat down and read the thing through objectively and without looking to back up any religious ideas you already have?
I have and this is my opinion. There are some good morals and words of wisdom in it but a lot of it is so vague that you can see why it's spawned so many religions who interprete it in different ways. Some of it I find downright objectional. Believe it or not there are several instances in it that clearly state that it's wrong to be gay. Some of the book is a bit boring too but I guess that depends what you're interested in. So overall, an interesting book but in my opinion, that's what it should be taken as, just a book.
 
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SilentEyz

SilentEyz

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Yes, I have Read it through, unobjectively without needing to use it to back up my beliefs ... Several times actually.

There are 2 things any one who studies the bible should understand.

1) Yes it was written by man, And although that does not make it any less true, it does make much of it only relevant to a time and place, and it leaves it Intentionally to inturpretation. ( old testement)

2) The bible was written through the course of many years and many people, with the intentions to be understood at diffrent levels, and for diffrent reasons. The bible is not a hands on how to do book, It is a reference guide, It is meant to be personnaly interpreted,

No one should use the bible to confirm only what they read, They should If they truly want to get value from it's word, Read it, and read into it, Many things you read and see in the bible are circumstantial to events that were taking place in that time. Many are simply lessons on value's and morality, that still play a role in society today, And many things are meant and intentionally written so that you have to learn with your faith rather then from what you are told.
 
sharpies

sharpies

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<H3> Leviticus 18:21-23 21 " 'Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed [a] to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.
22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
23 " 'Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.

This is the most famous example of what Christians use as proof that it is a sin to be gay. My arguement would be - Why would anyone want to stay with a Church that calls their lifestyle a sin? Go out & find a Church that believes that it is OK to be gay.

Allan


</H3>
 
sharpies

sharpies

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Leviticus 20:13
13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Here's another.

Allan
 
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majikstranger

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i love how undertsanding and eternally loving god is in the old testament that he will put anyone to death for their lifestyle or difference in opinion. ANyways to the point. The bible is a great read but as always not to be taken literal since it is known that the bible has been mistranslated and reworded. Such as in the case of the anglican church. the king wanted to divorce his wife, but couldnt because of religion. SO what does he do? He takes the bible, takes out any passage he didnt like and put some new ones in and bam now you have the anglican church of England.

Ask yourself this?

Is the bible a plagerized version of older text and religions?

It is known fact Jesus was not born december 25 yet that is what we are told. WHy? because every other pegan and agnostic diety before christ was born on the 25th of december. WHy the 25 th of december? because every year in december the sun stop moving (wich is symbolic of dying) and 3 days later on the 25th it starts moving again (birth). The sun was also considered God's Sun wich eventually became gods son (sun=jesus).

I know some of you are gonn aget upset by these statements if your really heavily into religion but these arent my statement, these are historical fact. look it up there were at least 6 christ like figures in history that were crucified way before christ such as Quetzecoatle.

Anyways just thought i would throw in this added history lesson.
 
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Peter Parka

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I agree with sharpies here. Other references where the Bible says that it's wrong to be gay are...
Romans 1:24-27 - God, in keeping with the desires of their hearts,gave them up to uncleaness, that their bodies might be dishonored among them...God gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites, for both their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and recieving in themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error.
1 Timothy 1:9-11 - Law is promulgated, not for a righteous man, but for persons lawless and unruly, ungodly and sinners,... fornicators, men who lie with males,...and whatever other thing is in opposition to the healthul teaching according to the glorious good news of the happy God.
Jude 7 - Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them, after they...had gone out after flesh for unnatural use, are placed before us as a warning example by undergoing the judicial punishment of everlasting fire.
Well, I don't know what everyone else thinks of these quotes but it sounds like dangerous homophobia to me!
 
andcuriouser

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EDIT: I'm pretty much only dealing with Leviticus here... Peter and Majik posted while I was still typing.

Actually, the bible doesn't really "cleary state that it is wrong to be gay". It all depends on which bible you're reading. For instance, the New Living Translation interprets Leviticus 18:22 as "Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin." But there was no Hebrew word for homosexuality, so there is no way that could be the proper translation.

Most bibles use the word "lie" (as in, "You shall not lie with a man as with a woman"), which some scholars argue that it could have meant that two men could not sleep together in a woman's bed, as that would be a defilement of the woman. So, theoretically, homosexuality was allowed, as long as it did not take place in a woman's bed. This is probably unlikely, though.

Also, since that particular part of the bible has a lot to do with pagan ritual, some argue that Lev 18:22 only refers to homosexual acts during the pagan rituals, but not
to homosexuality as a whole.

The explanation that I believe, is that the bible was written by men, and at the time of its writing, women were believed to be lesser human beings. As such, sexual intercourse was an act of dominence over a woman. When a man had sex with another man, one of them has to take the "role of a woman", and at the time, that would have been considered ritually unclean.

I didn't intend to rant on homosexuality in the bible. Haha, I think the main point I want to make is: the bible was written in a time that is very different from the one we live in now. While certain messages (do not steal, do not cheat, be kind to your neighbour) are timeless and universal, others (beat your slave, dominate your wife) are very outdated for our day and age.


Matt wants to add something, since he has his Jew-view on it, but I'll make him log on once I'm finished. :p
 
trope

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Yeah, right. I'll just go on my computer to give my "jew-view", Le.

Arthur Waskow (a writer and rabbi) presents two awesome interpretations of the whole gay-thing in the bible:

1. Two males having sex should be aware that it is different from a male and female having sex. They deserve a parallel, but different set of institutions.

2. Two males having sex should not pretend that one of the males is a woman. They should be fully aware of their orientation, and most importantly, their maleness.

This is based on Leviticus, mostly. But those were the views I was taught on homosexuality and the Torah as a child, and the views I still hold today.

I believe in the Torah, but I also believe that it needs to be considered with our time, as so much has changed.
 
sharpies

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I agree with you Leland, the bible is a great collection of stories. It has some fascinating stories in it that still have relevance today (probably because they tell of human trials) but there is also a lot of shit, much of it nowhere near relevant. Yeah I know, this statement from an atheist, but you would have to be an idiot to dismiss the bible out of hand. (It can't really be used as evidence of god as it was written by men)

I have stated some of the most obvious before such as eye for an eye style of justice & stoning for acts of adultery.

The real problem, of course, is that some people read it as historical fact & that is extremely dangerous.

Allan

P.S. There is an old Buddhist saying "God must have loved fools to have made so many of us", maybe this should be adapted by the gay community.
 
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majikstranger

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I seem to remember one of gods rules is not to judge others. I say if your a homosexual do what you want as long as your not hurting anyone else. Let god dohis job and judge us when we die. To think you are worthy of judging others is blasphemous and consequently a sin. Live and let live. you cant help who you are, and if you love the same sex it isnt like you can take a pill to cure that. homosexuality has been around long before the bible was written and way after it. think of something or someone you trully love and now imagine the world tellin gyou its wrong and you are gonna burn in hell for it. Will that change how you feel about the thing or person you love? i think not. I think god is perfectly capable to do his work of judging so ill wait till i die to ask him if its right and wrong
 
sharpies

sharpies

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Yeah let God deal with it!

(You must allow an atheist a snicker here, please try to take no offence but I can't help myself)

Snicker...

Allan
 
sharpies

sharpies

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tomatopotato said:
I don't think you need any references to know buttsecks is wrong. Shits supposed to come out that end, not go in.
Click to expand...

Ok, if this is true, answer just one question for me. When did you DECIDE (that is make a choice) that you prefer women rather than men (or if you are female, men rather than women)?

Allan
 
elluko

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This thread is going from bible talk, to gay talk!
It may contradict the name of the site, but stay on topic!
 
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