So what the hell happened to the Fourth freaking Amendment?

[retro]

Documents Reveal TSA Research Proposal To Body-Scan Pedestrians, Train Passengers

http://blogs.forbes.com/andygreenbe...an-to-body-scan-pedestrians-train-passengers/

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Fucking bullshit.

 

[Dana]

They're using it to wipe their asses.

 

[HottyToddyChick]

I remember my civics teacher always saying that my right to swing my fist ends where the other person's nose begins. That's the best I have for all searches. A necessary evil to protect the whole?

 

[retro]

A necessary evil to protect the whole?

But at what cost? Blatant violation of the Constitution by an organization directly under a department of the Government.

 

[HottyToddyChick]

I had to search for answer and found this:

While the new TSA enhanced pat downs may violate the Fourth Amendment on the surface, what most people are not aware of is that the 9th Circuit Court of the United States ruled on the search of passengers in airports back in 1973, which effectively suspends limited aspects of the Fourth Amendment while undergoing airport security screening.
In 1973 the 9th Circuit Court rules on U.S. vs Davis, 482 F.2d 893, 908, there are key pieces of wording that give the TSA its power to search essentially any way they choose to. The key wording in this ruling includes “noting that airport screenings are considered to be administrative searches because they are conducted as part of a general regulatory scheme, where the essential administrative purpose is to prevent the carrying of weapons or explosives aboard aircraft.”

U.S. vs Davis was upheld by the 9th Circuit Court in 1986 in U.S. vs Pulido-Baquerizo, 800 F.2d 899, 901 with this ruling “To judge reasonableness, it is necessary to balance the right to be free of intrusion with society’s interest in safe air travel.”

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flyin...tsa-legally-circumvents-the-fourth-amendment/

So I guess it is legal. There's another paragraph in there with a quote that essentially says people can avoid the searches by electing to not fly. It's not like you're being searched on the streets, or even entering the airport. It's a situation people are knowingly (and willfully) putting themselves in.

 

[Tangerine]

I had to search for answer and found this:

While the new TSA enhanced pat downs may violate the Fourth Amendment on the surface, what most people are not aware of is that the 9th Circuit Court of the United States ruled on the search of passengers in airports back in 1973, which effectively suspends limited aspects of the Fourth Amendment while undergoing airport security screening.
In 1973 the 9th Circuit Court rules on U.S. vs Davis, 482 F.2d 893, 908, there are key pieces of wording that give the TSA its power to search essentially any way they choose to. The key wording in this ruling includes “noting that airport screenings are considered to be administrative searches because they are conducted as part of a general regulatory scheme, where the essential administrative purpose is to prevent the carrying of weapons or explosives aboard aircraft.”

U.S. vs Davis was upheld by the 9th Circuit Court in 1986 in U.S. vs Pulido-Baquerizo, 800 F.2d 899, 901 with this ruling “To judge reasonableness, it is necessary to balance the right to be free of intrusion with society’s interest in safe air travel.”

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flyin...tsa-legally-circumvents-the-fourth-amendment/

So I guess it is legal. There's another paragraph in there with a quote that essentially says people can avoid the searches by electing to not fly. It's not like you're being searched on the streets, or even entering the airport. It's a situation people are knowingly (and willfully) putting themselves in.

But that's just it... read the article. They are not talking about airports. They are talking about other forms of public transportation like commuter trains... AND about randomly scanning people who are walking down the street without the people knowing they are being searched or giving their consent. This is totally new and could not POSSIBLY pass by the SCOTUS.

 

[Tim]

The TSA may have bounced this idea around but it would never be implemented. There is no way in hell the American people would stand for it. At least with air travel they have you by the balls, meaning that if you want to fly, you go by their rules. But the second they try to invade our privacy for no good reason, there would be a revolt.

Plus as Tang said, it would never hold up in court.

 

[HottyToddyChick]

Trains I can understand. I could even understand large gatherings, perhaps an inauguration or parade or something.

But for me to walk the Inner Harbor and be virtually stripped? Not cool.

 

[retro]

Plus as Tang said, it would never hold up in court.

They could just the so-called Patriot Act... and how quickly do cases even make it to the Supreme Court? Other than disputed Presidential Elections that is.

 

[Tangerine]

They could just the so-called Patriot Act... and how quickly do cases even make it to the Supreme Court? Other than disputed Presidential Elections that is.

It wouldn't haveto get to the Supreme Court. Any lower court judge could rule to stop the scannings from happening and issue an injunction to enforce it. Then the burden would fall on the good ole Gubmint to challenge that ruling all the way to SCOTUS if they wanted to start them back up again.

 

[BornReady]

I think Americans are too scared of terrorists. What happened to land of the brave?

 

[Tim]

I think Americans are too scared of terrorists. What happened to land of the brave?

I completely agree with you here. We have turned into a country of pussies and the fear mongers out there love to fuel the fire. This is exactly why Beck, Hannity, Limpballs and the rest of them do so well. They love feeding the fears of the weak.

 

[Accountable]

Except that this one is being done on your boy's watch.

The federal gov't has no business providing house security for the airlines. They at least own the train system, no matter how wrong that is, so there's at least some justification. What about Greyhound? Don't bus passengers rate a federal feel-up?

Big Brother's balls have grown way too big. It's time we neuter him.

 

[retro]

I completely agree with you here. We have turned into a country of pussies and the fear mongers out there love to fuel the fire. This is exactly why Beck, Hannity, Limpballs and the rest of them do so well. They love feeding the fears of the weak.

Because the right are the only ones that fearmonger, right? Oh wait, that's what Obama did with health care "reform". That's what the Dems do whenever the GOP even thinks about entitlement reform. "the Republicans want to throw grandma out on the street"

 

[Guyzerr]

I completely agree with you here. We have turned into a country of pussies and the fear mongers out there love to fuel the fire. This is exactly why Beck, Hannity, Limpballs and the rest of them do so well. They love feeding the fears of the weak.

You forgot to mention there is a lot of folks getting rich due to your homeland security stuff. I'd venture a guess that's the primary reason for what's going on and it has very little to do with actual security threats.

 

[the terrible]

suspections that it's a conspiracy, i 100% sure it is, because:


(1) they wanted to use it against the arab-muslim oil trading countries as a threat
(2) theres no way those planes managed to fly around without getting shot down, stopped or anything
(3) that how the hell did the terrorists managed to go there? and also how did they get the coordinates, planes locations codes timings, hitting world's marketplace requires craploads of complexed plans. the US citizens themselves i see are starting to suspect it's a conspirace, other citizens say it was UFOs LOL

 

[Accountable]

You forgot to mention there is a lot of folks getting rich due to your homeland security stuff. I'd venture a guess that's the primary reason for what's going on and it has very little to do with actual security threats.

 

[MoonOwl]

:homo:

and that we as a nation haven't fully-realized that yet astounds me.

 

[Alien Allen]

The 9th circuit would uphold it if it ever happened and came to them for a ruling. They are notorious for being loony

But hopefully the SCOTUS would over turn any such ruling

 

[Tim]

Except that this one is being done on your boy's watch.

The federal gov't has no business providing house security for the airlines. They at least own the train system, no matter how wrong that is, so there's at least some justification. What about Greyhound? Don't bus passengers rate a federal feel-up?

Big Brother's balls have grown way too big. It's time we neuter him.

Actually it's not being done in this administration. If you read the article, they were looking into this between 2006 and 2008. That was under the last administration.

The non-profit Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC) on Wednesday published documents it obtained from the Department of Homeland Security showing that from 2006 to 2008 the agency planned a study of of new anti-terrorism technologies that EPIC believes raise serious privacy concerns.

As far as what the TSA is doing currently, I think it's wrong. They need to check baggage, question passengers and have them walk through a metal detector.

Because the right are the only ones that fearmonger, right? Oh wait, that's what Obama did with health care "reform". That's what the Dems do whenever the GOP even thinks about entitlement reform. "the Republicans want to throw grandma out on the street"

You seriously think it's tit for tat? Fear mongering is what the republicans are all about. We could sit here and list example after example but you know damn well that you will run out of examples LONG before I did. Hell, just listen to any of the right wing idiots on the radio and the entire show is dedicated to making their audience scared.

"the Republicans want to throw grandma out on the street"

I think you have that backwards... It was the republicans that said that the government wanted to get in between grandma and her doctor.