Separating the Chaff from the Wheat

[Minor Axis]

I stumbled upon this link of quotes from the Bible, Quran, and Book of Mormon at Dwindling in Unbelief. I've not verified these quotes, maybe someone can verify their accuracy?

This list really makes holy books look questionable as a valid source to live your life by at least when it comes to modern society and stoning. Well, it's just an impression. I wonder how many other religious examples are out of touch by today's standards?

 

[Peter Parka]

I find that religious people excuse the questionable beliefs with the "you're missing the right interpretation" excuse, even when it looks pretty clear cut to me. Quite how they know what the right interpretation is, is a mystery to me and if they can't show me proof of it, that excuse just makes the whole book irrelevant as a source of reliable information about how god wants us to live.

 

[GraceAbounds]

I stumbled upon this link of quotes from the Bible, Quran, and Book of Mormon at Dwindling in Unbelief. I've not verified these quotes, maybe someone can verify their accuracy?

This list really makes holy books look questionable as a valid source to live your life by at least when it comes to modern society and stoning. Well, it's just an impression. I wonder how many other religious examples are out of touch by today's standards?

Understand there are 3 different types of laws in the Bible. You have ceremonial law, moral law, and civil law.

Civil law, which is what all the verses are that are referred to in the link you provided, were provided for the Israelites by God. He gave them civil law as he was making them into a nation. We are not to live our life by the verses that are posted on that link. Those civil laws applied to the Israelites and the people in the surrounding land from the time Moses brought down those laws from God to the people until the dispersion of their peoples/tribes/nation.

Ceremonial law is for believers.

And moral law is for believers and non believers. Moral laws are written in our souls by God and are not even needed to read to know what they are. If one is humble and not arrogant, they will feel it inside when they have done something wrong. They will get an uncomfortable feeling, unfortunately due to pride many ignore it, some become numb to it as they have behaved wrongly for so long. Ignoring one's own sin only makes us look like fools.

 

[Minor Axis]

Thanks Grace for clarifying that. Now I can ponder if the civil law referenced in the Bible is out of date does that in any way mean that the other two types of law have relevance in today's society? I admit that moral law should have relevance.

An interesting concept is the "law" business. Ok, I know Moses came down from the mountain with the 10 commandments. Yes, I'd say these are portrayed as laws directly from the mouth of God. But are there examples of other direct, clearly stated laws in the Bible or are they mostly just interpretations based on writings? Can you easily think of another example of a law as stated in the Bible?

Our son attended a Catholic school for several years. However before that we checked out a Protestant school where the Admissions officer pulled out this sheet of paper with all the school rules, backed up by quotes from the Bible. "Here we go" I thought, as they had some quote from the Bible (darn I can't remember it) as to why Boys must wear their hair short as I remembered those pictures of Jesus with long flowing hair... It just reinforced that many things in the Bible are very subject to interpretation.

Thanks!

 

[pladecalvo]

Quite how they know what the right interpretation is, is a mystery to me .......

You and me both mate!

 

[groundpounder]

I get a kick out of the hair thing!! Always have..as if we know what JC's hair actually looked like! Or if our hair should be shorn or not.

Just a kick!! The thing is, what it does is take's people's eyes off of what is important. Ol' Lucifer loves to have us argue over such things!

 

[GraceAbounds]

Thanks Grace for clarifying that.

You are welcome. I will help as much as I can with the knowledge I am clear on. If I am not clear or have not study something I'll let you know.

Now I can ponder if the civil law referenced in the Bible is out of date does that in any way mean that the other two types of law have relevance in today's society?

Civil law does not apply to us today.
Ceremonial law applies to believers today, but not to non believers.
Moral law applies to everyone one, believer and non believer.

Ok, I know Moses came down from the mountain with the 10 commandments. Yes, I'd say these are portrayed as laws directly from the mouth of God. But are there examples of other direct, clearly stated laws in the Bible or are they mostly just interpretations based on writings? Can you easily think of another example of a law as stated in the Bible?

God traveled with the Israelites in their presence. He was with them constantly, cloud by day and fire by night over the tent of meeting I believe. The first 5 books of the Bible contain all the civil laws. It has been a while since I have done the study to give you even more particulars. Moses and God talked regularly regarding law as the Lord was leading them to the promise land is the short and skinny.

Our son attended a Catholic school for several years.

I don't agree with Catholic teachings what so ever so I can not comment.

However before that we checked out a Protestant school where the Admissions officer pulled out this sheet of paper with all the school rules, backed up by quotes from the Bible.

Protestant broke off of the Catholic church and then turned around and became just as legalistic as the church they broke off from. So it doesn't surprise me that you ran into what you ran into.

If you are ever interested in sorting through ceremonial law and moral law with me, I'd be happy to have some personal back and forth discussion. It is something that irritated me too and I've done a good amount of study on, though I am not finished so there is still some uncovered ground for me.

Nice to just talk, exchange ideas, and not argue.

Thanks.

 

[Minor Axis]

Moral law applies to everyone one, believer and non believer.

I'm more interested in the moral laws. My example of why "boys should wear their hair short" is an example of someone interpreting script in the bible. Not a clear cut law in my opinion, but they are using to say, basically "here's a law". And I found a quote from The Christian Compass: Corinthians 11:2-16.

V.14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. Honestly I think this is how most of the Bible is interpreted by religious authorities.

The above is just mumbo jumbo. For example why does nature teach us it is a shame for men to have long hair? And why is it a glory for woman to have long hair? Is this the Bible's attempt at fashion law? This does sound like it could be interpeted as a law, but no reason is given. Is that how religion works? We spit out laws but no need to trouble yourself with the reason?

You know when it comes to moral law, I think morals have changed drastically since biblical days especially when it comes to the treatment of women and the double standard that is deeply ingrained in the Bible. As I read through the quotes on the Christian Compass link, my impress was this stuff is just so out of touch and primitive. It's very easy to see why any fundamentalists (of this or any religion) who take literal interpretation of these ancient books are truly living in the 1st century.

What bugs me most is when people pick and choose what they are going to follow because it reduces whatever authority the religious book has.

If you are ever interested in sorting through ceremonial law and moral law with me, I'd be happy to have some personal back and forth discussion. It is something that irritated me too and I've done a good amount of study on, though I am not finished so there is still some uncovered ground for me.

Nice to just talk, exchange ideas, and not argue.

Thanks.

Thanks for the offer, I appreciate it, but this is just a casual request not the start of serious study on my part. So, besides the 10 commandments can you (or anyone) give another example of a "moral law" from the Bible? I will look up any example given.

Yes, it is definitely nicer not to argue. We should not talk politics.

 

[Andre]

I'm more interested in the moral laws.

So, besides the 10 commandments can you (or anyone) give another example of a "moral law" from the Bible?

The Law of Christ springs to mind - there may be other examples. Here are a few important verses regarding the law.

It is my understanding that Israel was under the Law, which Christ fulfilled by his death, and that now Christians partake in a "new covenant" that was prophesied.

"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." - Matthew 7:12 (NIV)

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." - Matthew 22:36-40 (NIV)



The "Law of Christ".

"Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ." - Galatians 6:2 (NIV)



"For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace." - Romans 6:14 (NIV)

"Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes." - Romans 10:4 (NIV)

 

[Minor Axis]

"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." - Matthew 7:12 (NIV)

Andre, this is an excellent moral rule. Thank you for reminding me of it.