Right and Wrong

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GraceAbounds

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Do you believe that there are some actions that are absolutely wrong in all circumstances? Give examples. Do you believe that you have an innate knowledge of right and wrong? How did you learn right and wrong? What was the influence of your parents? Society? Other forces? What are your thoughts about how beliefs concerning right and wrong originate? To what degree do you believe that rules about right and wrong originate from a universal source? From within oneself?

Btw, there are no right and wrong answers here. :D
 
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All Else Failed

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Im largely a relativist, since right and wrong are purely subjective...everything should be taken case by case.


What we think is right and wrong largely originates from the society you grow up in, its mostly social conditioning.
 

groundpounder

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Do you believe that there are some actions that are absolutely wrong in all circumstances? Give examples.
Absolutes are so hard to find in anything, and "Right and Wrong" can be a matter of perspective, but I like the seeds of this debate, so I'll go out on a limb and post what I feel is something that is absolutely wrong in all circumstances: the wanton murder of a child.

Im largely a relativist, since right and wrong are purely subjective...everything should be taken case by case.
What we think is right and wrong largely originates from the society you grow up in, its mostly social conditioning.
what do you think of that, Mr. Relativist? Can you justify the indiscriminate killing of a young person? :popcorn2:
 

All Else Failed

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Absolutes are so hard to find in anything, and "Right and Wrong" can be a matter of perspective, but I like the seeds of this debate, so I'll go out on a limb and post what I feel is something that is absolutely wrong in all circumstances: the wanton murder of a child.

what do you think of that, Mr. Relativist? Can you justify the indiscriminate killing of a young person? :popcorn2:
I didn't say I was a total relativist, please read my posts correctly. I said I am largely a relativist, because I don't think there is one truth to most things, and each situation needs to be observed case by case.

In the case of killing a young person, I don't see the need to kill him. Your question is too vague.



About your "absolute wrong" of killing a child....what if the child was hypothetically infected somehow with a imaginary virus that spreads through the air by it simply breathing, where it has the capacity to infect and kill several thousand people? In this hypothetical situation, would you kill the child?
 

Peter Parka

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I believe there are a few circumstances which are black and white, right or wrong, like killing or raping for instance. You all know my views of them. Most other things I think depend on the circumstances. Killing I think can have lenient circumstances depending on the situation but is still ultimately wrong.
 

All Else Failed

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I believe there are a few circumstances which are black and white, right or wrong, like killing or raping for instance. You all know my views of them. Most other things I think depend on the circumstances. Killing I think can have lenient circumstances depending on the situation but is still ultimately wrong.
What about self defense?
 

Maritxu

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Some actions are wrong, but always depending on the circustamces, always. Only placing the action in its context you are able to judge in a fair way.
 

GraceAbounds

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I'm just going to give short answers to these according to who I am and what I believe, as I have GOT to get on my homework. LOL!

Do you believe that there are some actions that are absolutely wrong in all circumstances?
Yes.

Give examples.
Simple example: lying is always wrong. However, sometimes we will lie for a greater 'right'.
(hope you kwim)

Do you believe that you have an innate knowledge of right and wrong?
Yes I do. I believe it has been written on the hearts of men.

How did you learn right and wrong?
Parents, experience, God, society, school, other family members, friends

What was the influence of your parents?
I learned from them teaching me and from mistakes they made and things they did right.

I don't learn so much from society anymore as much of society is mixed up with very wrong values imo. It's sad. Thankfully there are a lot of good forces in society if one seeks them.

What are your thoughts about how beliefs concerning right and wrong originate?
I believe that the only true and absolutes of right and wrong came from God.

To what degree do you believe that rules about right and wrong originate from a universal source?
100%

From within oneself?
I believe mankind deceives their selves regarding right and wrong.

Btw, there are no right and wrong answers here. :D
Yep, it is all of our own perspectives in how we live our lives. Interesting stuff.

:)
 

Maritxu

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Do you believe that you have an innate knowledge of right and wrong?
No we don't. It has been found that moral developement is part of the socialization progress.

How did you learn right and wrong? What was the influence of your parents? Society? Other forces? What are your thoughts about how beliefs concerning right and wrong originate? To what degree do you believe that rules about right and wrong originate from a universal source? From within oneself?
Moral developement depends on a lot of things. To begin with, human beings are social animals and for that reason, they are empathic. Only very young children and anti social perosnalities break this norm.
Then, the religion in which the society is based also should be taken into account. We live in a culture based on Christian principles, weather we are believers or not.
The education given by the family is the most important factor that contributes to the child's moral developement. The parents are the first ones to tell the kid how what is good and wrong and to punish bad actions and reward good ones.
The school also plays a very important role because it's the place where children socialize. In some schools there are programs that include ethics and or/religion, and I have heard of even sound that are based on Kohlberg's moral stages.
We of course shouldn't foget other factors like experience, the influence of the media (violence), or even politics.... etc.
 

Maritxu

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some more info on the subject if you people are interested on the researches of psychologists on this field:

KOHLBERG'S MORAL STAGES

Kolberg's theory specifies six stages of moral development, arranged in three levels.
Level I: Preconventional/Premoral

Moral values reside in external, quasi-physical events, or in bad acts. The child is responsive to rules and evaluative labels, but views them in terms of pleasant or unpleasant consequences of actions, or in terms of the physical power of those who impose the rules. Stage 1: Obedience and punishment orientation

  • Egocentric deference to superior power or prestige, or a trouble-avoiding set.
  • Objective responsibility.
Stage 2: Naively egoistic orientation

  • Right action is that which is instrumental in satisfying the self's needs and occasionally others'.
  • Relativism of values to each actor's needs and perspectives.
  • Naive egalitarianism,orientation to exchange and reciprocity.
Level II: Conventional/Role Conformity

Moral values reside in performing the right role, in maintaining the conventional order and expectancies of others as a value in its own right. Stage 3: Good-boy/good-girl orientation

  • Orientation to approval, to pleasing and helping others.
  • Conformity to stereotypical images of majority or natural role behavior.
  • Action is evaluated in terms of intentions.
Stage 4: Authority and social-order-maintaining orientation

  • Orientation to "doing duty" and to showing respect for authority and maintaining the given social order or its own sake.
  • Regard for earned expectations of others.
  • Differentiates actions out of a sense of obligation to rules from actions for generally "nice" or natural motives.
Level III: Postconventional/Self-Accepted Moral Principles

Morality is defined in terms of conformity to shared standards,rights, or duties apart from supporting authority. The standards conformed to are internal, and action-decisions are based on an inner process of thought and judgement concerning right and wrong. Stage 5: Contractual/legalistic orientation

  • Norms of right and wrong are defined in terms of laws or institutionalized rules which seem to have a rational basis.
  • When conflict arises between individual needs and law or contract, though sympathetic to the former, the individual believes the latter must prevail because of its greater functional rationality for society, the majority will and welfare.
Stage 6: The morality of individual principles of conscience

  • Orientation not only toward existing social rules, but also toward the conscience as a directing agent, mutual trust and respect, and principles of moral choice involving logical universalities and consistency.
  • Action is controlled by internalized ideals that exert a pressure to act accordingly regardless of the reactions of others in the immediate environment.
  • If one acts otherwise, self-condemnation and guilt result.

Read more here:
Kohlberg's Moral Stages
 

groundpounder

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I didn't say I was a total relativist, please read my posts correctly. I said I am largely a relativist, because I don't think there is one truth to most things, and each situation needs to be observed case by case.
your posts are difficult to read correctly because they are so opaque. You said you're 'largely' a relativist, so I called you Mr. Relativist.
By 'largely,' you mean that you apply your relativism when it's convenient to make your point.



In the case of killing a young person, I don't see the need to kill him. Your question is too vague.
So when I say "Can you justify the indiscriminate killing of a young person, " you're saying that your largely relativistic outlook makes the question too vague? No, it doesn't. Can you or can't you? If you can, take a crack at telling me when it's justifiable to murder a child. If you can't then say so. How is that vague?
There's nothing vague about it, only the way you choose to answer, because relativist views are so diluted and dispersed, you cannot proffer an intelligent answer to justify it. Relatively speaking, of course.
Relativism allows you to come across as ambiguously intelligent, but only because it masks the fact that you have little or no clue as to what your core beliefs are and could not solidly defend them even if you knew.



About your "absolute wrong" of killing a child....what if the child was hypothetically infected somehow with a imaginary virus that spreads through the air by it simply breathing, where it has the capacity to infect and kill several thousand people? In this hypothetical situation, would you kill the child?
Since you're so fond of saying, "Read my post correctly," I find it interesting that you immediately detach from the reality of mine and invoke "imaginary viruses" with conjured up consequences. What that allows you to do is not answer the question, which is right where you want to be.
I did not say "child with an 'imaginary virus' (LOVE that!!). I said wanton murder/indiscriminate killing.

Will your warped sense of relativism allow you to say that the wanton, indiscriminate killing/murder of children is OK or not OK?

Because see, now it's a matter of pride for you. In that you will not allow yourself to answer the question because to do so, you would have to kowtow to my pointing out of the fact that you have a hard time defending your core beliefs behind the shroud of anonymity of the internet and the fog of your highly regarded relativism. And your pride won't allow you to do that.

You think your relativism makes you high minded and socially evolved, when in practice it cripples you from knowing who you are.

Make a stand.
 

GraceAbounds

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Not getting involved in the discussion between AEF and GP, but I just wanted to state that I totally agree with GP's thoughts regarding relativism. It contains the type of truth this world needs to hear imo.

Make a stand. Damn right! Rep'd brother.
 

groundpounder

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To think of them as insults would miss the point, but you seem to be exceedingly good at that, so we'll see you later I guess with more of your vague and foggy opacity. :cool
 

groundpounder

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you have yet to make either a point or a stand in here. Good day to you and good luck with your existential studies and whatnot
 
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