RELIGIOUS VALEDICTORIAN: U.S. Supreme Court rules in Nebraska Case

[boombala]

RELIGIOUS VALEDICTORIAN: U.S. Supreme Court rules in Nebraska Case.


(November 18, 2009)
http://buzz.yahoo.com/buzz?targetUrl=http://www.eurweb.com/story/eur57501.cfm



*The Supreme Court has rejected an appeal from a Christian student who complained that high school officials violated her constitutional rights when they turned off her microphone during her graduation speech.

The justices said they will not revive a lawsuit filed by Brittany McComb of Henderson, Nev. challenging the actions of Clark County school officials. A federal appeals court previously ruled against her.

During McComb's speech at the Foothill High School graduation in 2006, officials turned off McComb's microphone when the school valedictorian strayed from an approved text to provide a graphic account of Jesus' crucifixion and credit God for her success in school.

http://www.eurweb.com/story/eur57501.cfm

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IMO, good decision. There are places better suited for witnessing.

Thots, comments, etc?

 

[Tim]

So according to her, God was the reason for her success in school. I guess he was helping her right up to the point where they turned off her mic :24:

 

[Leananshee]

OK, who now does not understand that schools cannot endorse a religion OR interfere with the free exercise of individual students? I get fed up with extremists on both sides of this issue. The school here had no right to pull the girl's mike, just like it wouldn't have the right to a school led prayer. Period. And that's no matter WHAT religion she was. She earned top honors in her class, let her extoll Thor or Barney the dinosaur if she wants to.

tim :eek

 

[Tangerine]

OK, who now does not understand that schools cannot endorse a religion OR interfere with the free exercise of individual students? I get fed up with extremists on both sides of this issue. The school here had no right to pull the girl's mike, just like it wouldn't have the right to a school led prayer. Period. And that's no matter WHAT religion she was. She earned top honors in her class, let her extoll Thor or Barney the dinosaur if she wants to.

tim :eek

In that setting, it WAS a school led prayer. It was on school property, during a school function, in front of an audience who had no option to choose whether they wanted to hear her religious speech. The school had more than a right to turn off her mic, they had a legal obligation to.

 

[Leananshee]

As valedictorian, she's being honored by the school, not representing it. The legal obligation of the school was not to infringe upon her First Amendment right to free speech. So fucking what if there were people there who didn't want to hear it? I've heard my share of school speeches, none of which were particularly memorable. I dislike those who try to force religious doctrine into schools, such as trying to get equal time for so-called "intelligent design", but I despise equally some atheists who are just as fundamentalist as the Christian right who try to silence even legitimate religious exercise, 'cause it burns their ears to hear mention of God within fifty feet of them.

tim :eek

 

[Dana]

In that setting, it WAS a school led prayer. It was on school property, during a school function, in front of an audience who had no option to choose whether they wanted to hear her religious speech. The school had more than a right to turn off her mic, they had a legal obligation to.

I'm with homo.

 

[Tangerine]

As valedictorian, she's being honored by the school, not representing it. The legal obligation of the school was not to infringe upon her First Amendment right to free speech. So fucking what if there were people there who didn't want to hear it? I've heard my share of school speeches, none of which were particularly memorable. I dislike those who try to force religious doctrine into schools, such as trying to get equal time for so-called "intelligent design", but I despise equally some atheists who are just as fundamentalist as the Christian right who try to silence even legitimate religious exercise, 'cause it burns their ears to hear mention of God within fifty feet of them.

tim :eek

Despise it all you want, but you'd better get used to it, because it's the law of the land. And I'm damn happy it is.

The SCOTUS has clearly defined time and time again that the 1st amendment is not a license to say anything/anywhere/anytime. I'm sure we'd all love to believe that it is, but is not. With this case they've hammered that home once again.

 

[Dana]

As valedictorian, she's being honored by the school, not representing it. The legal obligation of the school was not to infringe upon her First Amendment right to free speech. So fucking what if there were people there who didn't want to hear it? I've heard my share of school speeches, none of which were particularly memorable. I dislike those who try to force religious doctrine into schools, such as trying to get equal time for so-called "intelligent design", but I despise equally some atheists who are just as fundamentalist as the Christian right who try to silence even legitimate religious exercise, 'cause it burns their ears to hear mention of God within fifty feet of them.

tim :eek

She was a child (well young adult). Her freedom of speech is stepped on every day.

 

[Tangerine]

... schools cannot ... interfere with the free exercise of individual students?

This has also been covered by SCOTUS in several cases. Minor children in school settings are not guaranteed the same rights as adults in public settings.

 

[Leananshee]

Government tramples over the constitutional rights of Americans every day, including, if not especially, schools. The fact is, if any other deity had been invoked those trolls wouldn't have pulled the plug.

We are not talking about the girl trying to broadcast every detail of her sex life over the PA, or throwing up gang signs at the podium. The very fact that this had to go to Federal court to begin with is evidence enough that extremists have taken over the court system. A girl earns the highest honors in her class and wants to thank God for it, and THAT'S a threat to society? Anyone who nods his head to that question needs desperately to get it thoroughly examined.

I happen to be for separation of church and state, against school prayer, and against fundies trying to inject religious doctrine into the schools. I thank God, however, that thus far a certain few zealots haven't been able to stomp out the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, for instance, and at least where I am, God is invoked in the Pledge of Allegiance. I'd be happy to look up the names of the fairly recent SC cases where the groups in the former case were protected.

Once a few more justices die off, it'll change. Again. This fight has been going on for decades, and it's ridiculous.

tim :eek

 

[GameCrazed]

America. Where atheists are the #1 minority ad you can't say Merry Christmas at K-mart. > D

Now, I bet if she would've gone on rambling about how Barrack Obahma had uplifted her with his spirit nowbody would've cared at all.
Well, somebody...

Hell, they should've given her the speech just for putting up with the Goddamn School- System, for so long!

 

[Tangerine]

We are not talking about the girl trying to broadcast every detail of her sex life over the PA, or throwing up gang signs at the podium.

Nope, we're not. We're talking about someone using PUBLICLY OWNED facilities to broadcast a message of religious nature to a group who did not choose to participate in that. It's not allowed, period. It's not news that it's not allowed, and she was told it was not allowed. Yet she chose to disobey her instructions and do it anyway. The microphone should have been pulled away simply for not following instructions. I think it's a great example to kids that if you chose to break the rules, there will be consequences.

There is no infringment of religious freedom in this country. People can freely gather on any private property at any time, worship whichever deity they chose, however they choose, as often as they choose, with no fear of interference from the Government. What people CANNOT do, is use publicly owned facilities for it. It's not that hard to understand, really, yet people still want more.

Personally, I'm thankful everyday that my country has the balls to allow me freedom FROM religion, and I will fight for that freedom every day of my life.

 

[GameCrazed]

A sidewalk is publicly owned.

May I pray on it?

 

[Tangerine]

A sidewalk is publicly owned.

May I pray on it?

Not with a PA system and microphone.

 

[Leananshee]

Nope, we're not. We're talking about someone using PUBLICLY OWNED facilities to broadcast a message of religious nature to a group who did not choose to participate in that. It's not allowed, period. It's not news that it's not allowed, and she was told it was not allowed. Yet she chose to disobey her instructions and do it anyway. The microphone should have been pulled away simply for not following instructions. I think it's a great example to kids that if you chose to break the rules, there will be consequences.

Voltaire is attributed with the phrase: "I do not agree with a word you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it." School officials, on the other hand, tend to believe by practice that anything that might remotely be construed as offensive by anyone must be silenced. It was that kind of stupidity that brought the lawsuit in the first place. I hear all sorts of idiotic rhetoric in public places; usually the prescribed course is to keep them talking. Just admit it, if the speech included an anti-war message instead of a religious one you wouldn't be up in arms about the rules.

There is no infringment of religious freedom in this country. People can freely gather on any private property at any time, worship whichever deity they chose, however they choose, as often as they choose, with no fear of interference from the Government. What people CANNOT do, is use publicly owned facilities for it. It's not that hard to understand, really, yet people still want more.

Personally, I'm thankful everyday that my country has the balls to allow me freedom FROM religion, and I will fight for that freedom every day of my life.

Freedom from religion, huh? Atheists hate it when I call them fundamentalists and zealots, still more when I prove it. It's easy to do. Most of the time all I have to do is quote them. Religious groups can't use public facilities? They do it every day in this country, and have protected equal access to them.

A sidewalk is publicly owned.

May I pray on it?

Not with a PA system and microphone.

WRONG. Do your homework. Here are just a few SC cases that prove you wrong. If you insist, I'll dig up some more.

Widmar v. Vincent, 1981 -- Supreme Court case upheld the rights of student groups to hold religious services on a university campus.

Oh, right, that's PUBLIC property. Hmmm. Never mind there are "pit preachers" and "street preachers" on PUBLIC property every day.

Equal Access Act, 1984 -- was specifically enacted to prevent schools from discriminating against religious student groups.

Board of Education of Westside Community Schools v. Mergens, 1990 -- A principal tried to block a Christian student group from meeting on a high school campus. The Supreme Court ruling was based upon the Equal Access Act in favor of the students.

Shall I continue?

tim :eek

 

[Tangerine]

How about THIS CASE?

Or is it totally irrelevant too?

 

[Dakota Jim]

I don't care if you believe in god. Pray. I don't want my children taught religion in a school which accounts for the majority of my home taxes. I believe churches violate there place in national elections as it is. They are tax exempt and are such only because they are religious organizations. If they want to be political organizations then tax hell out of them and let preach politics. It's simple. Be what you are supposed to be. If you are a school teach the subjects demanded in life, if you are a church preach religion, but not politics.

 

[Tangerine]

If it helps you, I'd be happy to point out why all of the examples you cite are completely irrelevant to this case.

Students and private citizens DO have a right to conduct their own private, personal religious excercises on public property - e.g. the gathering of prayer services or FCA functions conducted by students. What CANNOT happen is for religious expressions to be made or conducted by those who are employees of the government (school) or at official school-conducted events. That is why teachers cannot lead prayers in classes, or organize student prayer gatherings. Schools cannot provide a prayer before sporting events as that has been deemed to be "sanctioned" by the school. This point is exactly what the SCOTUS just reaffirmed.

Sorry that your point of view on the subject is repeatedly rejected by the court, but that's the way it is.


Oh, and I really don't care what labels you choose to apply to me. Fire away. My beliefs won't waiver and the courts are on my side.

 

[Leananshee]

How about THIS CASE?

Or is it totally irrelevant too?

McComb v. Crehan, the current case in question, was rejected by the SC without comment. What does that usually suggest, other than that, for the moment, the lower court ruling stands?

tim :eek

 

[tnok]

I don't care if you believe in god. Pray. I don't want my children taught religion in a school which accounts for the majority of my home taxes. I believe churches violate there place in national elections as it is. They are tax exempt and are such only because they are religious organizations. If they want to be political organizations then tax hell out of them and let preach politics. It's simple. Be what you are supposed to be. If you are a school teach the subjects demanded in life, if you are a church preach religion, but not politics.

I don't disagree with your logic, although I do think religion should be a part of school, especially since the majority of our laws and rules come from the morals taught in the Bible.

The whole tax exempt thing though, you are wrong about. A church cannot endorse any person running for any office or it will lose it's tax exempt status, the only "political" things they are permitted to speak about is issues. Such as issues that will violate a belief that they have. (or any issue really, although, it would be annoying to hear about an issue that does not violate the Bible.)

As far as this case goes, she should not have been cut off. The first amendment states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

She was asked to speak, not forced to speak, it was not an assignment but a request, therefor she freely chose to give her speech. There was not a school official that spoke, it would be like a student starting her speech by praying....hmmm....

She should have been stopped briefly and told that she could only say that which the school approved and to speak about the religious things elsewhere. Not cut off without any warning.