prisoners voting

[skyblue]

2 issues here,prisoners and the long term unemployed

due to EU interference people in jail now get to vote in elections here,i'm not talking about just petty criminals either,but all criminals,be it murderers,rapists,child molesters and terrorists,where i can agree with short term prisoners getting to vote the rest are there because they're a danger to society and are excluded from it for a very long time...i think that the excluded part should mean just that,no role to play in the outside world at all,no voting should be a standard

now the long term unemployed....i'm not on about someone who lost his job through corporate greed or the recession but is actively looking for work....i'm on about those who have no intention of ever working,who have no intention of contributing to the society they live in...if they have no intention of contributing they shouldn't have a say in how the country's run....i've been left school for 33 years now and in total i've spent 1 year unemployed,thats 32 years of taxes etc.....i know people who'd struggle to say that they've worked for 1 year in that time...why should they have the same benefits that i have?

 

[Abcinthia]

I'm a bit torn with prisoners voting.
I do think it should depend on the crime and the length in prison. Someone who is in prison for a minor offence and who is going to be released and be part of society should be allowed to vote. People like The Yorkshire Ripper who is never (hopefully) going to be released due to their crimes, to me shouldn't get the opportunity to vote because it should be a liberty they lose and they are never going to be part of society.

As for unemployed people, I think they should get the vote. You might not like their way of life but they are still part of society and there are too many variables as to why someone might not work. I think a change in the benefit system, not a ban on voting would be a better way of dealing with that.

 

[porterjack]

i am confident the % of the population to whom you would deny the right to vote - serious offenders and your interpretation of lazy unemployed people is so small so as to never threaten the balance of power, as such, they should be allowed to vote

 

[Zorak]

I don't actually have a problem with those you mentioned voting.
I think progression as a society can be best measured in how you treat those that don't treat you well.

 

[porterjack]

I don't actually have a problem with those you mentioned voting.
I think progression as a society can be best measured in how you treat those that don't treat you well.

nice comment, i thought you were a Thatcher fan

 

[dkwrtw]

I think a person should have to pass some sort of intelligence test before being allowed to vote.

 

[Zorak]

nice comment, i thought you were a Thatcher fan

Well, fan's a strong word. :surrender

She did good, and she did bad. Lots of people, similarly with all world leaders, seem to focus on either or.

 

[Springsteen]

On prisoners, my personal feeling is they shouldn't be allowed to vote. I mean they have committed a crime and they are being punished for that, but who's to say they've been reading certain promises made by a certain party about prisoners getting more rights. Sure this party might not win but in the end they have voted for them. As for people like child molesters/paedo's etc they shouldn't vote because they should be executed, but that's an entirely different debate.

On unemployed people, I think they should in terms of the fact they are still members of society, but the bigger problem if you are opposed to it is going through individual case studies and studying them to determine who is looking for work and who really can't be arsed getting a job. And that would take a lot more time and cost a lot more money, so it would be easier either to stop them voting altogether or let them keep voting. Little story for you, a couple of years ago I found myself claiming benefits and I was made to attend a two week unemployment course. Anyway first day there the tutor gets us all together in a room and asks each of us different questions like how long have you been unemployed/what work do you want, and there was this guy who was there who saud out loud "I haven't had a job for 20 years and I have no intention of finding one". I was absolutely flabbergasted that anyone could live like that. Anyway I quit the course, signed off and went back to college while earning money doing odd jobs for people. So with people like that I can understand why people get angry with the unemployed.

 

[purpledove]

I think a person should have to pass some sort of intelligence test before being allowed to vote.

Being a part of the working force with the Prison System ( and am just gonna speak in behalf of the State I am currently at- most States might have different rules / policies) and given the goal nowadays is geared towards rehabilitation, reformation and not condemnation- Yes the prisoners have to take screeening/ intelligence tests and pass at a certain high rating b4 they are able to vote. There is a very small amount of them who are able to pAss these tests and hence minimAl amount is able to vote.

 

[dkwrtw]

Being a part of the working force with the Prison System ( and am just gonna speak in behalf of the State I am currently at- most States might have different rules / policies) and given the goal nowadays is geared towards rehabilitation, reformation and not condemnation- Yes the prisoners have to take screeening/ intelligence tests and pass at a certain high rating b4 they are able to vote. There is a very small amount of them who are able to pAss these tests and hence minimAl amount is able to vote.

I'm not talking about prisoners, I think EVERYONE should have to pass a test before being eligible to vote, People of below average intelligence ought to have no say in something as important as how a country is ran.

 

[porterjack]

Being a part of the working force with the Prison System ( and am just gonna speak in behalf of the State I am currently at- most States might have different rules / policies) and given the goal nowadays is geared towards rehabilitation, reformation and not condemnation- Yes the prisoners have to take screeening/ intelligence tests and pass at a certain high rating b4 they are able to vote. There is a very small amount of them who are able to pAss these tests and hence minimAl amount is able to vote.

interesting that prisoners are held to a higher standard than the general population

 

[purpledove]

I'm not talking about prisoners, I think EVERYONE should have to pass a test before being eligible to vote, People of below average intelligence ought to have no say in something as important as how a country is ran.

Oh my bad Sir! Since the topic is all about 'prisoners voting' i thought u were on that page too

 

[purpledove]

interesting that prisoners are held to a higher standard than the general population

High rating based from their GAF ( Global Assessment of Functioning). There is a process to determine thru series of mental/psychological tests as to their level of capabilities . It's a team of Doctors, health professionals and social workers etc that come up with decisions basing from the results to determine their capability to vote and performing other activities of daily living. Nothing to do with higher standards as to the general population. That's an entirely different ball game

 

[Accountable]

If the goal of prison is rehabilitation, then prisoners should be allowed, even encouraged, to vote. It gives them a sense of belonging and ownership in the larger community.

If the goal of prison is punishment, then we shouldn't be allowing them to mingle with each other, and while they spend their time in solitary they should be forced to listen to the prosecutor's closing arguments and the final verdict.

 

[porterjack]

High rating based from their GAF ( Global Assessment of Functioning). There is a process to determine thru series of mental/psychological tests as to their level of capabilities . It's a team of Doctors, health professionals and social workers etc that come up with decisions basing from the results to determine their capability to vote and performing other activities of daily living. Nothing to do with higher standards as to the general population. That's an entirely different ball game

well it is a higher standard versus the gen pop when it comes to voting, there are certain conditions that I have to meet to vote, i.e. age and residence, but no one tests my capability to vote, i understand the GAF would be used for a wide range of issues not just the capability to vote

 

[edgray]

<rant>Every new law is simply an admission by governments that they are hopeless at solving problems. Every new prisoner is the result of governmental ineptitude. For the most part, the penal system is simply a waste of time. Another big governmental fuck up.</rant>

Prisoners I think should be punished for their crimes. Then they should be rehabilitated. During the first part, the punishment, they should clearly have no right to vote. They are essentially removed from society during their punishment, therefore they should have zero say in what happens. During rehabilitation however, it's important to make prisoner feel included, to feel part of society again, so they should be able to vote.

So I believe they should be given the right to vote toward the ends of their sentences.

As for the perennially unemployed, personally, I'd treat them as criminals. They're parasites, just the same, and they're stealing off society. No one should be unemployed for more than a year or two. If they are, they need rehabilitating into the workplace. They should have the vote.

 

[edgray]

<rant>Every new law is simply an admission by governments that they are hopeless at solving problems. Every new prisoner is the result of governmental ineptitude. For the most part, the penal system is simply a waste of time. Another big governmental fuck up.</rant>

Prisoners I think should be punished for their crimes. Then they should be rehabilitated. During the first part, the punishment, they should clearly have no right to vote. They are essentially removed from society during their punishment, therefore they should have zero say in what happens. During rehabilitation however, it's important to make prisoner feel included, to feel part of society again, so they should be able to vote.

So I believe they should be given the right to vote toward the ends of their sentences.

As for the perennially unemployed, personally, I'd treat them as criminals. They're parasites, just the same, and they're stealing off society. No one should be unemployed for more than a year or two. If they are, they need rehabilitating into the workplace. They should have the vote.

 

[Dana]

prisoners should not vote... unemployed ppl still have a say in government whether u like it or not

 

[porterjack]

prisoners should not vote... unemployed ppl still have a say in government whether u like it or not

why should prisoners not vote?

 

[dkwrtw]

<rant>Every new law is simply an admission by governments that they are hopeless at solving problems. Every new prisoner is the result of governmental ineptitude. For the most part, the penal system is simply a waste of time. Another big governmental fuck up.</rant>

Prisoners I think should be punished for their crimes. Then they should be rehabilitated. During the first part, the punishment, they should clearly have no right to vote. They are essentially removed from society during their punishment, therefore they should have zero say in what happens. During rehabilitation however, it's important to make prisoner feel included, to feel part of society again, so they should be able to vote.

So I believe they should be given the right to vote toward the ends of their sentences.

As for the perennially unemployed, personally, I'd treat them as criminals. They're parasites, just the same, and they're stealing off society. No one should be unemployed for more than a year or two. If they are, they need rehabilitating into the workplace. They should have the vote.

I can't really agree with letting people vote from inside prison.