President Obama. Model for good spending. GM bail out. Do it again Please.

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Greatest I am

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President Obama. Model for good spending. GM bail out. Do itagain Please.

If I need say more, the U S population is not veryintelligent.

Regards
DL
 
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Stone

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retro said:
So wait... if people don't agree with you, they're stupid? Good God.
Click to expand...


well......first he ought to give a good reason for the call .....and he's off to a bad start using GM as an example :D
They're not exactly 'down the tubes', but the stock market hasn't treated them as a rising star, either.
And I did post a graph on their share price and the Bush bailout article.

Perhaps he is confused :D
 
Alien Allen

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Stone said:
Whether you blame Bush, Obama or both for reckless spending, it was Bush that initially signed off on the GM bailout.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16740.html

Obama is claiming he saved it:
http://campaign2012.washingtonexami...ama-bush-bailed-out-detroit-i-saved-it/338876

And Wall Street hasn't been overly impressed with the results.
http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/GM.png
Click to expand...

Bush provided a loan

Obama made them declare bankruptcy and then pissed on all prior bankruptcy laws. First in line creditors got the shaft

Another example where the constitution has been ignored
 
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Alien Allen said:
Bush provided a loan

Obama made them declare bankruptcy and then pissed on all prior bankruptcy laws. First in line creditors got the shaft

Another example where the constitution has been ignored
Click to expand...

First in line creditors got the shaft
Click to expand...

I remember that.....share holder's equity was reduced to ~1% of the new stock issue, the unions got ~33% and the government the rest of the new issue.

I saw where the Feds are still holding ~26%.
Any idea what the unions are doing/have done with their shares?

If smart....they dumped them long ago :D
 
Alien Allen

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Not sure about the answer Jack. Seems like I recall that was applied to their VEBA?

I know that VEBA was established or restructured but that might have been the contract before the bankruptcy

As you recall I have made the argument that the Big 3 had restructured the contracts. However some of the changes were not going into effect until later in the year or the next year. They needed money to buy time. It should have been a loan. Because they were poised for a turn around once the contract changes fell into place.

Obama had nothing to do with saving GM and Chrysler. But he did have a lot to do with screwing people with his dictates.

Not just investors. His "team" also demanded and got hundreds of car showrooms shut down. Lots of the vaunted 99% working at those places got fucked out of a job. Salespersons, mechanics, secretaries... etc.
 
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Alien Allen said:
Not sure about the answer Jack. Seems like I recall that was applied to their VEBA?

I know that VEBA was established or restructured but that might have been the contract before the bankruptcy

As you recall I have made the argument that the Big 3 had restructured the contracts. However some of the changes were not going into effect until later in the year or the next year. They needed money to buy time. It should have been a loan. Because they were poised for a turn around once the contract changes fell into place.

Obama had nothing to do with saving GM and Chrysler. But he did have a lot to do with screwing people with his dictates.

Not just investors. His "team" also demanded and got hundreds of car showrooms shut down. Lots of the vaunted 99% working at those places got fucked out of a job. Salespersons, mechanics, secretaries... etc.
Click to expand...


So much shit has gone down else where, I've forgotten some of those details with the auto industry.
How's your area doing since the crash?
Any noticeable turn around?

Ohio seems to be banking on natural gas for a turn around, but that's a hot potato what with fracking and issues with ground water pollution.
 
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Greatest I am said:
What is it about first place in world sales do you not understand?

Regards
DL
Click to expand...



I asked first :D

And you can thank natural disasters in Japan and Chinese GM production for much of the result you are bragging on.
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/01/18/general-motors-were-no-1/
  • Shanghai GM, a roughly equal partnership with Chinese automaker SAIC, builds and sells cars under the familiar Buick, Chevrolet, and Cadillac brands. It sold 1.2 million vehicles in 2011, enough to make it China's passenger-car leader, according to GM.
  • SAIC-GM-Wuling, a three-way venture that builds inexpensive little commercial vans and trucks under the Wuling brand, and low-cost cars under the recently introduced Baojun brand. A small number of Wulings are exported and sold elsewhere under the Chevrolet Move nameplate. It sold just under 1.2 million vehicles in 2011.
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GM is successful in China.....woo-woo......how the hell did that create jobs in the US?

But the market place that rewards entrepreneurship and profit making apparently doesn't agree with your argument that GM is a shining example.
If you bought the new GM stock when first released, you would have lost some serious money. Almost a third of it. Is that what you call a successful investment?

When GM reaches it's bottom, then it might be a good investment.


Perhaps you should have cherry picked a different example. ;)
 
Alien Allen

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Stone said:
So much shit has gone down else where, I've forgotten some of those details with the auto industry.
How's your area doing since the crash?
Any noticeable turn around?

Ohio seems to be banking on natural gas for a turn around, but that's a hot potato what with fracking and issues with ground water pollution.
Click to expand...

About the best I can say for my area is I think it has bottomed out

Too late for my business though. It is toast. This winter has pretty much killed it

As to the gas issue. MI is also looking at gas as a turn around. One of the factors that will dictate which states in the area turn it around will be on costs for industry. And as MI has a lot of gas to be gotten it hopes to be a cheaper state to do business in.

As to fracking I think there is much to be learned yet and safe guards need to be followed. I was at a meeting last month where a state geologist talked about fracking. I expected to hear horror stories and caution and a need to ban it. Turns out a lot of the crap out there against it is much ado about nothing. If things are constructed properly and the fracking is done with good iscolation distances.
 
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Alien Allen said:
About the best I can say for my area is I think it has bottomed out

Too late for my business though. It is toast. This winter has pretty much killed it

As to the gas issue. MI is also looking at gas as a turn around. One of the factors that will dictate which states in the area turn it around will be on costs for industry. And as MI has a lot of gas to be gotten it hopes to be a cheaper state to do business in.

As to fracking I think there is much to be learned yet and safe guards need to be followed. I was at a meeting last month where a state geologist talked about fracking. I expected to hear horror stories and caution and a need to ban it. Turns out a lot of the crap out there against it is much ado about nothing. If things are constructed properly and the fracking is done with good iscolation distances.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear about your business.
I read your online site about it being an old family tradition..

As far as fracking goes....it should be about the geology of the situation, not the politics. But I suspect there will be a lot of political involvement both ways regardless of the science .

Kasich has even come out claiming that expanding natural gas extraction is going to lower our state income taxes.
That's one hell of a promise considering the rising taxpayer obligations in regards to the underfunded public pension funds.
 
af12

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I gotta laugh when the finger pointing starts. The blame for the big economic mess is hardly ever placed right. If you watch this video: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/

You will clearly see the problem began under Clinton. If you don't have time to watch just look up Brooksley Born. She warned about the coming mess and was silenced. I think the biggest thing to help GM was getting rid of the man voted "Worst CEO of all time."
 
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Stone said:
How about a bank? :24:
Click to expand...


If this thread is about cherry picking......how about the fantastic successes at Bank of America?

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=...on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined


(whoops)

Do we really want to save BoA again??

While dated September of 2011.......the issues remain:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/12/us-merrilllynch-customers-idUSTRE78B4MY20110912


Do you want to dig the hole deeper....or wider?

How about both at the same time:
http://dailybail.com/home/holy-bailout-federal-reserve-now-backstopping-75-trillion-of.html
 
Accountable

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Machiavellian.
Why should I praise the GM employee for doing good by his bosses? It doesn't matter what the outcome was. It wasn't legal. Why don't we have the federal gov't bail out all troubled businesses? I'm sure Lack's Furniture Stores here in town could have used the help.
 
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